Who ever thought punk was not progressive? At minimum it was blatantly anti-authoritarian and counter to the conservative culture in Thatcher's UK and Reagan's US. Why would anyone be shocked to find out that it was also pro-choice, feminist, and anti-discriminatory?
Because the Nazi skinheads did a great job of co-opting the punk title for most people who weren't actually interested in punk. The news media were very complicit in pushing that specific image to undermine the punk movement to the general public.
That's new to me. Where I live, punks and skinheads are natural enemies
Like skinheads and goths, or skinheads and greasers, or skinheads and other skinheads
Labor skinheads and neonazi skinheads.
I was so sad when I discovered the Hammerskins were a thing (a White Power band inspired by Pink Floyd's Waiting For The Worms, but without the irony, with a corresponding militant movement). The Hammerskins took their logo:
From the Hammers banner from the movie version of Pink Floyd's The Wall
Which means when I reference the Hammers in parody of white power movements, I risk being associated with an actual white power movement.
If they had balls, they'd call themselves The Worms.
And the worms ate into his brain!
RFK_Jr.has entered the chat
...the hammers were in the original album art and live show before the film...
My first purchased version was the CD after the movie release. Stunning, amazing work, the lot of it.
"I thought WE were the People's Front of Judaea?"
That's true everywhere. The issue isn't what they are, the issue is how they were deliberately misrepresented. A whole lot of films and shows made it a point to conflate punks with white supremacists.
I wanted to say that that's what they are seen here in Germany. I have never heard of these films and the idea is new to me. Btw: the original skinheads were left working class so maybe history repeats itself here.
The Nazi skinheads co-opted skinhead. After the Geraldo Rivera episode everyone I knew let their hair grow out because they didn't want to be associated with that shit. Before that there were only a few isolated scenes where you'd see Nazi skinheads. Cutting off your hair was popular in the hardcore punk scenes because it was contrary to the long feathered hair popular in the 70's and 80's plus it was a lot easier than trying to get a Mohawk to stand up straight. That took a whole can of hairspray and we were all broke.
Y'all needed more Elmer's glue for the mohawks
Nah that stuffs water soluble, won't stand up in the pit
Because the Nazi skinheads did a great job of co-opting the punk title
Nah. They tried REAL hard to infiltrate and take over, but real punks always managed to repel them.
for most people who weren't actually interested in punk
And/or were just old fogies.
The news media were very complicit in pushing that specific image to undermine the punk movement to the general public.
Corporate news and undermining left wing people by conflating them with far right hate clubs. Name a more iconic duo.
The US government and coups in South America?
Why limit it to south america?
Just to be clear, here, I'm not suggesting that the neo Nazis actually did take over, only that that image was the wider public perception.
Some people just like the music and are either bad at media analysis or don't care enough to look into to further than the surface level.
Like Paul Ryan loving Rage Against The Machine.
Because the right have been carefully spending decades rewriting history and dumbfucks keep falling for it. Punk, doctor who and ratm were never conservative but pundits will tell you at great length how shocked and appalled they are when these things keep being left af
Doctor Who? The television show ran by the british government?
Yes, terribly woke
I mean a pretty popular punk song is NOFX Ronnie and Mags. It just talks incredible shit about Regan and thatcher. Listen to NOFX Jesusland and that should indicate what it’s all about. Damn I love punk.
It's one of those things I don't mind seeing over and over. It makes for a good song too.
The Right hated Rock and Roll back in the 1950s because you had white kids listening to dangerous 'race music.'
Same with rap in the 90-00s and even still to this day to some extent.
And I’m pretty damned sure some moderate liberals were wrapped up in it as well. It is America after all, where everyone’s a judgmental bigot.
The stickers on albums about parental guidance is absolutely moderate liberals being jackasses
Moderate liberals = neoliberals = conservatives.
Most notably Tipper Gore, yes.
Dee Snider calling out Tipper to her face in front of her husband was the best part of the PMRC Senate hearings.
As the creator of "Under the Blade," I can say categorically that the only sadomasochism, bondage, and rape in this song is in the mind of Ms. Gore.
It's crazy how like delusioned people are
Like punk is all about punching Nazis and Star wars has always been political
The empire is basically a Nazi analog
Like come on man
Basically what happened is some people started to pretend good art has absolutely no politics in it, except they decided what constitutes as politics, usually giving free pass to the "offensive humor" types like South Park and iDubbz.
damn I had to look up what idubbz is and it just... seems so unappealing
why are all these YouTube "celebrities" so lame is it really just cause they happened to be appealing to tweens when cell phones were invented
The appeal of iDubbz back in the content cop days was that it was unfiltered and gritty. I never much cared for the jackass style shock factor things he did together with filthy Frank but he was the king of burning down vapid youtube one-day-wonders like ricegum.
It has a huge "you had to be there" factor nowadays though in my opinion. I have never felt compelled to go back and rewatch anything because it just doesn't seem to fit into this era of the internet.
Don't know about the Nazi analogy, but in the original Book (The adventures of Luke Skywalker) on which the original movies are based, the emperor is literally described as being Nixon.
the emperor is literally described as being Nixon.
Now strike me down in your hate and anger. Aroooo!
You’re kidding, right? They’re literally called stormtroopers
It's like Lucas was accusing America of doing things Nazis would do! But that's unpossible!
The book is a novelization of the screenplay for the first film.
Doesn't matter. Star Wars was political from the start.
Agreed, just pointing out that the book was not source material
Star Trek has gone woke is the one that gets me. Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was not subtle and by the time of Far Beyond the Stars they weren't bothering with analogs.
TNG had an episode centered on discrimination of non-typical gender identity and conversion therapy over 30 years ago.
TBF, Avery Brooks fought like hell to get Far Beyond The Stars as uncomfortable as it was. Berman and the network wanted it to be a trite little story about a sci-fi writer; almost all the racism, discrimination, etc was Brooks pushing back on them.
Far Beyond the Stars is my absolute favorite, It’s Only a Paper Moon is a close second. DS9 is top tier sci-fi in my book.
The Empire is America, the rebels were the Vietcong. Lucas has said this specifically in multiple interviews. The Nazis helped with the uniforms, but The Empire is directly based on Wilsonian Doctrine.
Here, you seem to be running low: . . . .
Don't forget Star Trek.
I love seeing stuff like this, but I absolutely HATE that we are all still fighting for these rights and such basic shit is not long since codified into law. What the fuck.
As long as conservatives continue to breathe the air of the living, there will be oppression.
*the rich
It’s so ridiculous that part of me always thinks it must be a cynical evil distraction while all they really care about is continuing to transfer wealth from those already with less to those already with more. Because of course decent people care way more about human rights than a couple percentage points in their tax rate.
But I guess it doesn’t matter what truly motivates these supposed puppet masters when the hate around the world is very real.
Another picture:
And a better shot of the yellow pin, since it's at a weird angle:
"Scott, what music of mine that you were a fan of didn't contain 'Political BS'? I need to know, so I can delete it from the catalog"
Tom Morello
If you want a good laugh, ask a boomer what woke means, they have no idea
"Is the woke in the room with us right now?"
"Point on this dolly where the woke hurt you."
"Point on the gender neutral dolly where the woke hurt you"
it’s understandable that they don’t
If you ask a millennial then woke is a sarcastic term for someone who cares about fake social issues: like needing to stop gay marriage for society to exist
If you ask a zoomer then woke is a non-sarcastic term for someone who cares about real social issues: like needing to permit gay marriage so people can be equal
Obviously the zoomers are wrong about the term because they came after but enough of them use the term that way that it is no longer wrong
I'm a millennial, woke to me has always meant having your eyes open to see the bullshit in front of you.
Brought to you by the people that think Star Trek is too woke these days.
WOKENESS? In MY Utopian Space-Communist future!?
Special thanks to Discovery for putting the Gay front and center in the Fully-Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism of Star Trek.
It’s more likely than you think
I'm reminded of fox news saying star wars is to woke these days "that's why I like star trek"
Star Trek isn't woke enough these days.
TNG had Picard give a speech to a person from the past about how the Federation was able to accomplish so much only because society stopped being oriented around the accumulation of wealth.
Discovery had a character praise Elon Musk for being a pioneer.
To be fair to Discovery I think that was written before Musk had completely (or at least publicly) gone off the deep end, but even at the time I thought it was extremely stupid to have a character praise an early 21st century oligarch in the same sentence that they mention actual inventors and engineers.
That Musk-praise Discovery bit was said by someone from the mirror universe.
So it checks out.
That's only six pieces of flair.
The bare minimum is 15 pieces of flair. This is unacceptable.
Wasn't punk always woke?
conservatives and reactionaries either want to keep the status quo or regress, but they know the concept is super uncool so they have to do all these mental gymnastics to pretend progressives are the ones in charge (just by the virtue of slow progress through the decades) so by being regressive they're actually part of an anti-establishment subculture. it's wild, but you can't be conservative without seeing the world upside down so it tracks in a sense.
that's why some of them like bands like rage against the machine, not realizing they are the machine the band is talking about.
I kinda felt bad when Paul Ryan said his favorite was Rage and they dissed him of course. Would stink to have your favorite band literally hate you.
Was also like bruh how are you processing these lyrics???
you felt bad cause you have this thing called empathy, which Paul Ryan demonstrably lacks. fuck him and everyone around him.
That explains so much. I mean I'm saddened by a lot of the olde punks like Johnny Rotten becoming Trump heads. We still have Jello (Biafra) tho!
They are so woke, their wokeness needs to be in a fucking museum!
It's almost as if they don't give a damn about their bad reputation.
Also, there is a need for this Video in this thread.
Yeah. Thanks. It's always a good time for that video.
Reminds me of a video of conservative rage fans learning that rage is progressive.
War, war never changes
Joan Jett has about as much right to comment on what punk is as I do
Yeah, everyones opinion on punk is their own.
Now that is real Anarchy
Some people liked her song.
People can like her song (although, it's way more punk if you hate it), she's just never been punk.
I agree, that's why I said song and didn't pluralize it. She's always been overrated.
Love Joan Jett, especially as an Orioles fan. She was the guest splasher at the O's game the other week. Said she has the MLB At-Bat app up during her concerts to keep an eye on the Orioles score as well. She's just the best.
Who ever thought punk was not progressive? At minimum it was blatantly anti-authoritarian and counter to the conservative culture in Thatcher's UK and Reagan's US. Why would anyone be shocked to find out that it was also pro-choice, feminist, and anti-discriminatory?
Because the Nazi skinheads did a great job of co-opting the punk title for most people who weren't actually interested in punk. The news media were very complicit in pushing that specific image to undermine the punk movement to the general public.
That's new to me. Where I live, punks and skinheads are natural enemies
Like skinheads and goths, or skinheads and greasers, or skinheads and other skinheads
Labor skinheads and neonazi skinheads.
I was so sad when I discovered the Hammerskins were a thing (a White Power band inspired by Pink Floyd's Waiting For The Worms, but without the irony, with a corresponding militant movement). The Hammerskins took their logo:
From the Hammers banner from the movie version of Pink Floyd's The Wall
Which means when I reference the Hammers in parody of white power movements, I risk being associated with an actual white power movement.
If they had balls, they'd call themselves The Worms.
And the worms ate into his brain!
RFK_Jr. has entered the chat
...the hammers were in the original album art and live show before the film...
My first purchased version was the CD after the movie release. Stunning, amazing work, the lot of it.
"I thought WE were the People's Front of Judaea?"
That's true everywhere. The issue isn't what they are, the issue is how they were deliberately misrepresented. A whole lot of films and shows made it a point to conflate punks with white supremacists.
I wanted to say that that's what they are seen here in Germany. I have never heard of these films and the idea is new to me. Btw: the original skinheads were left working class so maybe history repeats itself here.
But does the average Joe know that?
The average Hans does
Continuing to learn is an important facet to life
Normies can't tell the difference.
(Can you really blame them when it's down to things like what color their shoelaces are?)
They are everywhere.
Nazi punks can fuck off
That's got a great ring to it!
Nazi punks, fuck off dead.
The Nazi skinheads co-opted skinhead. After the Geraldo Rivera episode everyone I knew let their hair grow out because they didn't want to be associated with that shit. Before that there were only a few isolated scenes where you'd see Nazi skinheads. Cutting off your hair was popular in the hardcore punk scenes because it was contrary to the long feathered hair popular in the 70's and 80's plus it was a lot easier than trying to get a Mohawk to stand up straight. That took a whole can of hairspray and we were all broke.
Y'all needed more Elmer's glue for the mohawks
Nah that stuffs water soluble, won't stand up in the pit
Nah. They tried REAL hard to infiltrate and take over, but real punks always managed to repel them.
And/or were just old fogies.
Corporate news and undermining left wing people by conflating them with far right hate clubs. Name a more iconic duo.
The US government and coups in South America?
Why limit it to south america?
Just to be clear, here, I'm not suggesting that the neo Nazis actually did take over, only that that image was the wider public perception.
Some people just like the music and are either bad at media analysis or don't care enough to look into to further than the surface level.
Like Paul Ryan loving Rage Against The Machine.
Because the right have been carefully spending decades rewriting history and dumbfucks keep falling for it. Punk, doctor who and ratm were never conservative but pundits will tell you at great length how shocked and appalled they are when these things keep being left af
Doctor Who? The television show ran by the british government?
Yes, terribly woke
I mean a pretty popular punk song is NOFX Ronnie and Mags. It just talks incredible shit about Regan and thatcher. Listen to NOFX Jesusland and that should indicate what it’s all about. Damn I love punk.
Thanks for making me discover some punk songs.
Kinky Sex Makes The World Go Round
Some people are weird.
Cause the majority of people on this planet are idiots?
Obligatory "Nazi punks fuck off"
It's one of those things I don't mind seeing over and over. It makes for a good song too.
The Right hated Rock and Roll back in the 1950s because you had white kids listening to dangerous 'race music.'
Same with rap in the 90-00s and even still to this day to some extent.
And I’m pretty damned sure some moderate liberals were wrapped up in it as well. It is America after all, where everyone’s a judgmental bigot.
The stickers on albums about parental guidance is absolutely moderate liberals being jackasses
Moderate liberals = neoliberals = conservatives.
Most notably Tipper Gore, yes.
Dee Snider calling out Tipper to her face in front of her husband was the best part of the PMRC Senate hearings.
It's crazy how like delusioned people are Like punk is all about punching Nazis and Star wars has always been political The empire is basically a Nazi analog
Like come on man
Basically what happened is some people started to pretend good art has absolutely no politics in it, except they decided what constitutes as politics, usually giving free pass to the "offensive humor" types like South Park and iDubbz.
damn I had to look up what idubbz is and it just... seems so unappealing
why are all these YouTube "celebrities" so lame is it really just cause they happened to be appealing to tweens when cell phones were invented
The appeal of iDubbz back in the content cop days was that it was unfiltered and gritty. I never much cared for the jackass style shock factor things he did together with filthy Frank but he was the king of burning down vapid youtube one-day-wonders like ricegum.
It has a huge "you had to be there" factor nowadays though in my opinion. I have never felt compelled to go back and rewatch anything because it just doesn't seem to fit into this era of the internet.
Don't know about the Nazi analogy, but in the original Book (The adventures of Luke Skywalker) on which the original movies are based, the emperor is literally described as being Nixon.
Now strike me down in your hate and anger. Aroooo!
You’re kidding, right? They’re literally called stormtroopers
It's like Lucas was accusing America of doing things Nazis would do! But that's unpossible!
The book is a novelization of the screenplay for the first film.
Doesn't matter. Star Wars was political from the start.
Agreed, just pointing out that the book was not source material
Star Trek has gone woke is the one that gets me. Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was not subtle and by the time of Far Beyond the Stars they weren't bothering with analogs.
TNG had an episode centered on discrimination of non-typical gender identity and conversion therapy over 30 years ago.
TBF, Avery Brooks fought like hell to get Far Beyond The Stars as uncomfortable as it was. Berman and the network wanted it to be a trite little story about a sci-fi writer; almost all the racism, discrimination, etc was Brooks pushing back on them.
Far Beyond the Stars is my absolute favorite, It’s Only a Paper Moon is a close second. DS9 is top tier sci-fi in my book.
The Empire is America, the rebels were the Vietcong. Lucas has said this specifically in multiple interviews. The Nazis helped with the uniforms, but The Empire is directly based on Wilsonian Doctrine.
Here, you seem to be running low: . . . .
Don't forget Star Trek.
I love seeing stuff like this, but I absolutely HATE that we are all still fighting for these rights and such basic shit is not long since codified into law. What the fuck.
As long as conservatives continue to breathe the air of the living, there will be oppression.
*the rich
It’s so ridiculous that part of me always thinks it must be a cynical evil distraction while all they really care about is continuing to transfer wealth from those already with less to those already with more. Because of course decent people care way more about human rights than a couple percentage points in their tax rate.
But I guess it doesn’t matter what truly motivates these supposed puppet masters when the hate around the world is very real.
Another picture:
And a better shot of the yellow pin, since it's at a weird angle:
Link to the music video in which the jacket appears (albeit without the pins).
She rocked the pink and black equally well.
Thanks for the yellow pin picture. Surprisingly few direct matches for that phrase. Harvard has record of a shirt of the same design:
That music video rocks!
God DAMN does Noel Fielding pull off the Joan Jett look.
My favourite is when conservatives complain that Rage Against The Machine has gotten too political.
And then they go after Tom Morello without realizing he has a political science degree.
They think Killing in the Name is a celebration of how things should be.
https://x.com/tmorello/status/1270419869524094976
"Scott, what music of mine that you were a fan of didn't contain 'Political BS'? I need to know, so I can delete it from the catalog"
If you want a good laugh, ask a boomer what woke means, they have no idea
"Is the woke in the room with us right now?"
"Point on this dolly where the woke hurt you."
"Point on the gender neutral dolly where the woke hurt you"
it’s understandable that they don’t
If you ask a millennial then woke is a sarcastic term for someone who cares about fake social issues: like needing to stop gay marriage for society to exist
If you ask a zoomer then woke is a non-sarcastic term for someone who cares about real social issues: like needing to permit gay marriage so people can be equal
Obviously the zoomers are wrong about the term because they came after but enough of them use the term that way that it is no longer wrong
I'm a millennial, woke to me has always meant having your eyes open to see the bullshit in front of you.
Millenials are wrong, actually
Neat
Brought to you by the people that think Star Trek is too woke these days.
WOKENESS? In MY Utopian Space-Communist future!?
Special thanks to Discovery for putting the Gay front and center in the Fully-Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism of Star Trek.
It’s more likely than you think
I'm reminded of fox news saying star wars is to woke these days "that's why I like star trek"
Star Trek isn't woke enough these days.
TNG had Picard give a speech to a person from the past about how the Federation was able to accomplish so much only because society stopped being oriented around the accumulation of wealth.
Discovery had a character praise Elon Musk for being a pioneer.
To be fair to Discovery I think that was written before Musk had completely (or at least publicly) gone off the deep end, but even at the time I thought it was extremely stupid to have a character praise an early 21st century oligarch in the same sentence that they mention actual inventors and engineers.
That Musk-praise Discovery bit was said by someone from the mirror universe.
So it checks out.
That's only six pieces of flair.
The bare minimum is 15 pieces of flair. This is unacceptable.
Wasn't punk always woke?
conservatives and reactionaries either want to keep the status quo or regress, but they know the concept is super uncool so they have to do all these mental gymnastics to pretend progressives are the ones in charge (just by the virtue of slow progress through the decades) so by being regressive they're actually part of an anti-establishment subculture. it's wild, but you can't be conservative without seeing the world upside down so it tracks in a sense.
that's why some of them like bands like rage against the machine, not realizing they are the machine the band is talking about.
I kinda felt bad when Paul Ryan said his favorite was Rage and they dissed him of course. Would stink to have your favorite band literally hate you.
Was also like bruh how are you processing these lyrics???
you felt bad cause you have this thing called empathy, which Paul Ryan demonstrably lacks. fuck him and everyone around him.
That explains so much. I mean I'm saddened by a lot of the olde punks like Johnny Rotten becoming Trump heads. We still have Jello (Biafra) tho!
They are so woke, their wokeness needs to be in a fucking museum!
It's almost as if they don't give a damn about their bad reputation.
Also, there is a need for this Video in this thread.
Yeah. Thanks. It's always a good time for that video.
Reminds me of a video of conservative rage fans learning that rage is progressive.
War, war never changes
Joan Jett has about as much right to comment on what punk is as I do
Yeah, everyones opinion on punk is their own.
Now that is real Anarchy
Some people liked her song.
People can like her song (although, it's way more punk if you hate it), she's just never been punk.
I agree, that's why I said song and didn't pluralize it. She's always been overrated.
Love Joan Jett, especially as an Orioles fan. She was the guest splasher at the O's game the other week. Said she has the MLB At-Bat app up during her concerts to keep an eye on the Orioles score as well. She's just the best.