If you must argue about the economy over Thanksgiving dinner, at least get the facts right

spaceghoti@lemmy.one to politics @lemmy.world – 13 points –
If you must argue about the economy over Thanksgiving dinner, at least get the facts right

How the economy is doing has always been a contentious topic, particularly when friends and family with different politics gather for Thanksgiving dinner. And the question has gotten even thornier this year, with consumer sentiment and polling data about the economy becoming historically de-linked from official measures of economic health like GDP. It’s not our job to tell people how they should feel about the economy, but we can at least add some facts as context to common complaints.


The economy is doing well, exclusively by the metrics the owner class sets.

Their metrics for the economy revolve around them metastasizing their wealth, and no supply side sycophants, that doesn't mean it'll lift your little peasant boat.

For context, the Fed considered it to be an emergency that for a short period of time laborers could actually have enough leverage to set terms of employment with their employers, the horror! Their answer was to use their interest rate mechanism to attack that emergency as hard as they could.

They were successful by their own definition of success. The economy is great now, the value of their digital seas of selfish capital were protected at laborer's expense, and all is right with the rigged capital markets again, according to those same people calling economic inequity a feature rather than a bug at least. The owner class would consider the economy perfect if we'd just work 16 hour days 7 days a week for minimum wage without complaint.

May this economy crater into dust, and cause enough pain that it will never be rebuilt in a similar form to perpetuate greed cruelty generationally. I've no hope for it happening near term, the oligarchs have too much control over force and propaganda, but it will one day. Rome fell under the weight of its own greed too.

And Rome didn't even yet have the technology to abuse that would have allowed their own runaway selfishness and decadence to literally reverse terraform the planet against their own survivability. I'm not superstitious enough to believe in karma, but I'll admit its a pleasing notion with regards to the growing climate change catastrophe of our own greed and greed enabling making.

That inflation bit is especially useful. Biden isn't to blame for inflation despite what Fox News and the Heritage Foundation say.

The budget reductions I had no idea about.

What the fuck? Why isn't anyone in the liberal media saying how good Biden is doing on the economy?

Because the WH keeps telling us we are doing great, but we can see that we are not. The wealthy are doing great, but the working class and poor are not

Because you cannot convince someone that the economy is doing well when they think it's not. Inflation was extremely high for too long, and the wage gap may be closing but it's still absurdly high. "There's a tumor in your brain, but we made it smaller by a third." It sounds like objective progress, but when the tumor is in your brain causing psychological and physical disability. Celebrating the progress makes it seem like you don't care about the remaining problems.

Because the "liberal media" is a myth, they're all owned by oligarchs who only care about their own cost to borrow capital to fund their VC Ponzi schemes so if interest rates are high they'll try to convince everyone that the economy is bad.

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that. The rent-seeking class prefers higher interest rates because they get higher returns on their investments. They've been lobbying the Fed to raise interest rates for over a decade, and they've finally gotten their wish.

Because Dems are TERRIBLE at messaging when they’re talking about themselves.

yup on inflation. just look at the fed interest rate for the last decade. you will see how it was raising at a nice gradual pace as obama finished up and then trump bully pulpitted it down to nothing before covid even hit. if they had kept the measured pace it would not have had the bad effects of having to pull so hard on the rudder now.

They have been. And they've been shouted down more often than not.

They have? I know Biden has been going on about "Bidenomics", but that's clearly not working.

I've made many posts here discussing the impact of Biden's economic policy. It all got shouted down by people complaining that since they don't perceive any improvement, there mustn't be any.

Witness also the comments reacting to this article arguing that there's been no improvement for any but the elite.

1 more...
1 more...
1 more...

Why isn’t anyone in the liberal media saying how good Biden is doing on the economy?

Because he isn't. It's borderline impossible to buy a house, gas prices are still through the roof, and consumer prices have skyrocketed. The article tries to play down the latter two increases by pointing to the average wage. However, studies show that most Americans have received a wage/salary increase in the last three years. This, in turn, suggests that the average wage increase championed by the EPI (which, by the way, is essentially the liberal version of the Heritage Foundation) is more likely related to a significant increase at either the floor or ceiling of wages. With the Fight for 15 movement gaining increasing popularity over the last few years, and a growing number of states increasing their minimum wages, it wouldn't be surprising if its mainly the floor that's increasing. If that's the case, the fact that the average wage is increasing is relatively meaningless for most Americans.

(which, by the way, is essentially the liberal version of the Heritage Foundation)

I don't think you understand how bad the Heritage Foundation is. EPI, for example, isn't drafting anything remotely as awful as Project 2025. EPI isn't trying undermine democracy, it just provides a counter to the acid the Heritage Foundation peddles as a tonic.

I mean, Project 2025 is essentially a brief on how to reduce government bureaucracy and regulation, which has been a position of conservative economics for as long as I can remember. EPI also briefs lawmakers on how to implement liberal economic policy. I'd hardly call either of those undermining democracy.

1 more...

Incredibly useful data. Thanks for sharing. Inflation compared to rest of G7 is great data to have.

It's impossible to buy a house, gas prices are insane, and the cost of consumer goods are still through the roof. The article tries to point to average wage increases over the last few years, but this categorically ignores the fact that most Americans haven't seen a wage increase during this time. This suggests that the wage increase isn't happening around the median of wages, where most hourly Americans find themselves, but rather is occurring at either the floor or ceiling — neither of which has an impact on most Americans. If I had to guess, I would think this is probably happening at the floor, given how many states have been raising minimum wage recently.

Of course, this is great news if you're earning minimum wage. The issue is, most Americans aren't.

honestly gas prices are pretty cheap compared to everything else. If it gets in line with everything else its going to really suck.