Visual artists fight back against AI companies for repurposing their work

Technology@lemmy.world – 191 points – 10 months ago

Visual artists fight back against AI companies for repurposing their work::Three visual artists are suing artificial intelligence image-generators to protect their copyrights and careers.

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Yes.

I once held a view similar to the one you present now. I would consider my current opinion further advanced, like you do yours.

You ask for elaboration and verbal definitions, I've been concise because I do not wish to spend time on this.

It is clear we cannot proceed further without me doing so. I have decided I won't.

Bummer. You could have been the first to bring actual argument for your position :)

Not today. I have too much else to do.

And it's not like my being concise makes my argument absent.

The issue isn't you being concise, it's throwing around words that don't have a clear definition, and expecting your definition to be broadly shared. You keep referring to understanding, and yet objective evidence towards understanding is only met with "but it's not creative".

Are you suggesting there is valid evidence modern ML models are capable of understanding?

I don't see how that could be true for any definition of the word.

As I've shared 3 times already: Yes, there is valid evidence that modern ML models are capable of understanding. Why do I have to repeat it a fourth time?

I don’t see how that could be true for any definition of the word.

Then explain to me how it isn't true given the evidence:

Language models show a surprising range of capabilities, but the source of their apparent competence is unclear. Do these networks just memorize a collection of surface statistics, or do they rely on internal representations of the process that generates the sequences they see? We investigate this question by applying a variant of the GPT model to the task of predicting legal moves in a simple board game, Othello. Although the network has no a priori knowledge of the game or its rules, we uncover evidence of an emergent nonlinear internal representation of the board state. Interventional experiments indicate this representation can be used to control the output of the network and create "latent saliency maps" that can help explain predictions in human terms.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.13382

I don't see how an emergent nonlinear internal representation of the board state is anything besides "understanding" it.

Cool. But this is still stuff that has a "right" answer. Math. Math in the form of game rules, but still math.

I have seen no evidence that MLs can comprehend the abstract. To know, or more accurately, model, the human experience. It's not even clear, that given a conscious entity, it is possible to communicate about being human to something non-human.

I am amazed, but not surprised, that you can explain a "system" to an LLM. However, doing the same for a concept, or human emotion, is not something I think is possible.

Cool. But this is still stuff that has a “right” answer.

What are you talking about? You wanted evidence that NNs can understand stuff, I showed you evidence.

Math. Math in the form of game rules, but still math.

Yes, and math can represent whatever you want. It can represent language, it can represent physics, it can even represent a human brain. Don't assume we are more than incredibly complicated machines. If you want to argue "it's just math", then show me that anything isn't just math.

I have seen no evidence that MLs can comprehend the abstract. To know, or more accurately, model, the human experience. It’s not even clear, that given a conscious entity, it is possible to communicate about being human to something non-human.

See? And that's the handwaving. You're talking about "the human experience" as if that's a thing with an actual definition. Why is "the human experience" relevant to whether NNs can understand things?

I am amazed, but not surprised, that you can explain a “system” to an LLM. However, doing the same for a concept, is not something I think is possible.

And the next handwave - what is a concept? How is "the board in Othello" not a concept?

Modern MLs are nowhere near complex enough to model reality to the extent required for genuine artistic expression.

That you need me to say this using an essay instead of a sentence, is your problem, not mine.

Modern MLs are nowhere near complex enough to model reality to the extent required for genuine artistic expression.

You'd have to bring up actual evidence for this. Easiest would be to start by defining "genuine artistic expression". But I have a feeling you'll just resort to the next handwave...

Thank you for confirming that your position doesn't make any sense.

Thank you for confirming that your position doesn't make any sense.

Rude. Thanks for confirming my choice on minimizing the effort I spend on you, I guess.