Are we doing this shit again? Look the straws and disposable cups consumers use pale in comparison to the largest contributors of plastics.
The fishing industry accounts for 70% of all plastic that makes it into the ocean. Textiles and shitty tire disposal combine to contribute about 65% of the plastic you will drink.
All of these things are things politicians can “do things” about but just simply don’t. Instead we get story after story about how you dear consumer are the shitty one who is at fault for the fucked up world you live in, not these hard working captains of capitalism who are just doing their best to keep shareholders happy while trying to buy that $50M mansion.
Yes, disposable cups are a problem. Solving that problem will do zero to change the calculus on the amount of plastic you’re actively putting into your body. This whole, “it’s not the fucked up systemic pollution our society relies on that’s the issue, it you to average person who is at fault for every problem in this world” Stockholm-esque bullshit type of journalism needs to stop.
Yes the scientific paper is indeed an interesting read. But what Wired has done is take this pretty innocuous study and turned it into some green washing flagellant bullshit that literally helps the core issue zero percent. Yes, we should be better stewards of the planet. No, telling everyone they’re pieces of shit for existing does not help the cause.
Let's do both?
I completely agree with you that big industrial polluters are the main problem. I also think that having the mindset every day to live more sustainably and reduce personal waste is valuable, even if it's really just a drop in the bucket overall. It can be eye-opening and a step toward bigger steps like voting, advocacy, boycotts, and conversations with others.
I would rather do something infinitesimally small than nothing.
The fear is that by doing these mostly ineffectual changes that puts the burden on consumers, the public perception of how much is being done gets skewed far beyond what the actual benefits are, and it uses up the willpower/energy people have for change. It ends up being a corporate misdirection that prevents any meaningful change from happening, like greenwashing.
Let’s do both?
That's a fine take, but it ignores that for this particular issue the consumer isn't the one dictating the terms. I can't roll up to the McDonald's and ask them to put my soda into the cup I hand them. Bioplastics and green plastics aren't a thing that I directly can fund nor can I convince my politician to prioritize research into them. And the other alternatives outside of a brand new kind of plastic or a reusable cup have massive cons, not because they are inherently bad choices, but because companies rushing to implement those changes are usually executed poorly. I mean, the BEST way to reduce this aspect that's immediately achievable by every single consumer is to just simply stop eating out completely.
I also think that having the mindset every day to live more sustainably and reduce personal waste is valuable
Absolutely. But there's also the aspect that our society is build with some really messed up assumptions and we really need to address those. Like a lot of energy needs to be poured into those things more so than anything else. Like I said, easiest way to do away with all of the particular plastic involved in the story is to just simply stop giving any money to fast food, take away stuff, etc. Make your own sandwich, pack your own mashed potatoes, fix your own coffee to take with you.
But there's a lot of people who are getting the full throat IRL experience that will say, "who the fuck has time for that shit?" And it's not their fault they are caught up in the shit tsunami that is modern society. They're just trying to survive. So things like "just stop eating there" is surprisingly, and fucked up, a big ask for them.
It can be eye-opening and a step toward bigger steps like voting, advocacy, boycotts, and conversations with others
And yeah, it's good to have a conversation about it. But we ought to really also talk about the details of the matter because they're important. Why isn't that voting working? Why is there so little advocacy? Why are boycotts doomed to fail every time? There's reasons for these things and I would argue that those reasons are way more important than shaming people who just want to eat a lunch today.
I would rather do something infinitesimally small than nothing
And I agree, but it needs to not stop there. And in fact the bigger picture items, the finer detail things, those things should be what lead the conversation and the stopping of plastic cups would be an outcome of that. Instead we have here a story that starts out with "you're a bad person for using plastic cups" and goes absolutely nowhere with "why it be like that?" It's just pure "you're a bad person. End of story." That's not incredibly helpful to convince people that they should be mindful. People should indeed be mindful, but the shirt that a lot of us are currently wearing has a lot more contribution to the issue than the cup some person just received at the McDonald's.
It's literally the plastic straw thing again. And changing that didn't really change much of the calculus then, because the straw thing contributes so little to the actual issue.
I think we're in violent agreement that just sorta looks like an argument.
I'll acknowledge that I have a privileged position where I can vote with my dollar for this kind of thing.
This is a similar discussion for electric vehicles and transit. It isn't the fault of the person in a 20 year old rusted out Civic that they're burning gas, because their neighborhood doesn't have a bus and why the heck would they pay for an EV and they just have to get to work.
"Penny wise, pound foolish" -- but they figured out they can make people argue about the pennies and keep all the pounds for themselves
Are we doing this shit again? Look the straws and disposable cups consumers use pale in comparison to the largest contributors of plastics.
The fishing industry accounts for 70% of all plastic that makes it into the ocean. Textiles and shitty tire disposal combine to contribute about 65% of the plastic you will drink.
All of these things are things politicians can “do things” about but just simply don’t. Instead we get story after story about how you dear consumer are the shitty one who is at fault for the fucked up world you live in, not these hard working captains of capitalism who are just doing their best to keep shareholders happy while trying to buy that $50M mansion.
Yes, disposable cups are a problem. Solving that problem will do zero to change the calculus on the amount of plastic you’re actively putting into your body. This whole, “it’s not the fucked up systemic pollution our society relies on that’s the issue, it you to average person who is at fault for every problem in this world” Stockholm-esque bullshit type of journalism needs to stop.
Yes the scientific paper is indeed an interesting read. But what Wired has done is take this pretty innocuous study and turned it into some green washing flagellant bullshit that literally helps the core issue zero percent. Yes, we should be better stewards of the planet. No, telling everyone they’re pieces of shit for existing does not help the cause.
Let's do both?
I completely agree with you that big industrial polluters are the main problem. I also think that having the mindset every day to live more sustainably and reduce personal waste is valuable, even if it's really just a drop in the bucket overall. It can be eye-opening and a step toward bigger steps like voting, advocacy, boycotts, and conversations with others.
I would rather do something infinitesimally small than nothing.
The fear is that by doing these mostly ineffectual changes that puts the burden on consumers, the public perception of how much is being done gets skewed far beyond what the actual benefits are, and it uses up the willpower/energy people have for change. It ends up being a corporate misdirection that prevents any meaningful change from happening, like greenwashing.
That's a fine take, but it ignores that for this particular issue the consumer isn't the one dictating the terms. I can't roll up to the McDonald's and ask them to put my soda into the cup I hand them. Bioplastics and green plastics aren't a thing that I directly can fund nor can I convince my politician to prioritize research into them. And the other alternatives outside of a brand new kind of plastic or a reusable cup have massive cons, not because they are inherently bad choices, but because companies rushing to implement those changes are usually executed poorly. I mean, the BEST way to reduce this aspect that's immediately achievable by every single consumer is to just simply stop eating out completely.
Absolutely. But there's also the aspect that our society is build with some really messed up assumptions and we really need to address those. Like a lot of energy needs to be poured into those things more so than anything else. Like I said, easiest way to do away with all of the particular plastic involved in the story is to just simply stop giving any money to fast food, take away stuff, etc. Make your own sandwich, pack your own mashed potatoes, fix your own coffee to take with you.
But there's a lot of people who are getting the full throat IRL experience that will say, "who the fuck has time for that shit?" And it's not their fault they are caught up in the shit tsunami that is modern society. They're just trying to survive. So things like "just stop eating there" is surprisingly, and fucked up, a big ask for them.
And yeah, it's good to have a conversation about it. But we ought to really also talk about the details of the matter because they're important. Why isn't that voting working? Why is there so little advocacy? Why are boycotts doomed to fail every time? There's reasons for these things and I would argue that those reasons are way more important than shaming people who just want to eat a lunch today.
And I agree, but it needs to not stop there. And in fact the bigger picture items, the finer detail things, those things should be what lead the conversation and the stopping of plastic cups would be an outcome of that. Instead we have here a story that starts out with "you're a bad person for using plastic cups" and goes absolutely nowhere with "why it be like that?" It's just pure "you're a bad person. End of story." That's not incredibly helpful to convince people that they should be mindful. People should indeed be mindful, but the shirt that a lot of us are currently wearing has a lot more contribution to the issue than the cup some person just received at the McDonald's.
It's literally the plastic straw thing again. And changing that didn't really change much of the calculus then, because the straw thing contributes so little to the actual issue.
I think we're in violent agreement that just sorta looks like an argument.
I'll acknowledge that I have a privileged position where I can vote with my dollar for this kind of thing.
This is a similar discussion for electric vehicles and transit. It isn't the fault of the person in a 20 year old rusted out Civic that they're burning gas, because their neighborhood doesn't have a bus and why the heck would they pay for an EV and they just have to get to work.
"Penny wise, pound foolish" -- but they figured out they can make people argue about the pennies and keep all the pounds for themselves