It is fundamentally difficult to grasp, yeah. CS Lewis has an illustration that I will borrow blatantly steal outright: imagine an outside entity who "sees" the entire trajectory of your life as a line, with all its twists and curves, and then, perhaps on a whim or to make it more beautiful art, decides to "outline" it, like maybe a highlighter or let us rather say one line "above"/to the left and another line "below"/to the right of it. From your perspective, your life appears "hemmed in", outlined, bordered by those two lines - as if you had no choices in the matter? Yet, that outside agent was the one who drew the lines, but following YOUR choices! That at least is the simplistic version, but it gets even weirder if, while the outside agent is drawing those outlining lines, your own lifeline changes in response. So if the agent starts drawing from the beginning of your life to the end, the final trajectory could change - according to YOUR choices, but in response to THEIR choices, which were themselves based on YOUR choices to begin with. Notice the caveat inherent in that: the "you" may change, from an alternate-reality you without interference from that outside agent, to now the "you" that has done so.
Even weirder, what if that "outside agent", who I mentioned earlier plays you like a chess piece pawn, isn't "God" or whatever, but YOU! In that case, "you" are the video game or storybook or whatever character, but in this formulation, the external agent is also YOU - moreover it would be the REAL you, whereas the one inside this reality is the lesser version. Ofc, here you must somehow have "forgotten" your true, higher self. And as you brought up, there may not be a 1:1 correlation between each of us down here vs. ourselves up there - all humans could come from just 1 or a few up there, or whatever. Anything is possible there, and we are only limited by our imaginations here. What we know for certain here is that what Religion tells us in this regard is fundamentally flawed and wrong - b/c it is inconsistent e.g. even the people saying so do not practice what they preach - but we do not necessarily know what the True reality is. Now we see only in part. I still like thinking along those lines b/c there are multiple ways to be wrong, and thereby thinking along several different lines could help lead us to Truth - e.g. we might not be "actually" one being (I sincerely doubt it, I see no evidence of it at least), but is there any doubt that we are all "connected" nonetheless?
you should never really be interacting with the same person twice.
This one hits me hard - my (autism-spectrumed?) brain constantly forgets this and wants to pick up right where it left off - more a reflection of my own reduced capacity to handle things than anything to do with reality. Speaking of, I had already forgotten that beautiful perspective that you had shared with me about nations changing. Stuff at my job, weird weather, for a few days my exercise schedule has been interrupted and I am just "off", and just like that it had already slipped through my fingers, again. Maybe, or at least I mean it did at the conscious level. That said, I tend not to try to hold onto anything too strongly, trusting that if it is good that it will find its way back to me in time. That... is nowhere close to true though:-(, and yet I know that I CANNOT hold onto things no matter how I try, so it is demotivating to even try.
And I think there is an evolutionary reason for this: community. No one person - a sage on a mountaintop lets say - can or even should really try to have it all, all the knowledge, all the wisdom, all the perfection. Rather, if we choose to surround ourselves with those who are worthwhile, and distance ourselves from idiots (it seems sad but what else can you do but that? they are hell-bent on their own destruction, and they will absolutely take you down with them!), then we can keep reminding ourselves of these beautiful Truths.
Or, so I say anyway, but then I don't actually DO it - oopsie, I guess I too am one of those who says one thing yet does the polar opposite, an "idiot" even. As too are we all, but one difference, not sure I can take "credit" for any of it but just saying it as a fact (or so it seems to me): some of us, for whatever reason, desire to know the Truth, and Reason, and Mind, while some of us, again for whatever reason, do not. THAT makes all the difference in the world, b/c I will eventually find what I seek, with effort + time, while they literally never will (and even if they stumbled upon it, they would set it back down again without realizing its significance). So I am grateful that I care, and therefore... almost grateful for the pain that I lived through that made me care. Most people would have no idea whatsoever what that means, but I don't even need to explain it further than that, b/c you already do.
I hope these thoughts are at least halfway entertaining:-D.
Space timey wimy goodness
It is indeed difficult to grasp hahah! I don't think I'm able to see the exact picture you've written down. Kinda difficult with these things because they are so open to interperetation. The way I'm interpreting it right now is like whatever restrictions we feel we're surrounded by simply act kind of like horse blinders? There are so many possibilities when we know nothing!
but is there any doubt that we are all “connected” nonetheless?
Well, not in my mind. We can't really do anything without affecting the rest of the world. Everything we do has an impact, no matter how insignificant it may seem, even something as trivial as a fart. The energy, the words, actions and possibly even thoughts that we put out in the world, none of it is lost. I feel like that is a power that most of us ignore these days. We are to focused on the "now" and the things we can physically see and touch.
Speaking of, I had already forgotten that beautiful perspective that you had shared with me about nations changing. Stuff at my job, weird weather, for a few days my exercise schedule has been interrupted and I am just “off”, and just like that it had already slipped through my fingers, again.
That is so relatable hahah. I think it's normal and that we all have those moments but I also do not know what normal is. I think that's where meditation and mindfulness can be really helpful. You sometimes must make a conscious effort to remind yourself of these things because the world we've built is just so overwhelming at times, it's easy to get caught up in it and forget. It's kind of like weightlifting for the mind/soul hahah. If you stop training you're gonna lose all them gainz!
I guess I too am one of those who says one thing yet does the polar opposite, an “idiot” even.
I like to think that these "idiots" don't ever have these thoughts but what do I know, I may very well be an idiot myself. We probably all desire to know the truth but none of us seem to see the same thing, life is different for everyone. We are not given the same knowledge, everybody has a different piece of the truth (or truth™) that they build around.
So I am grateful that I care, and therefore… almost grateful for the pain that I lived through that made me care.
Well of course. You are the sum of your experiences and if you are at a point where you are happy with who you are, then you must appreciate the pain you've had to endure to get there.
I hope these thoughts are at least halfway entertaining:-D.
Absolutely! They have managed to take up an hour of what seemed to be the start of a pretty boring day.
Hehe, isn't it fun that we know nothing? Well, whether it is or not, that's just the way it is, so we adapt - it's what we are good at, and all that could ever possibly be done regardless:-P.
People that think (& act) as if their actions do not affect others do so as a result of that CHOICE to act exactly that way - just as those of us who do the opposite do as well. Facts may have little to nothing to do with that choice, except for some very few of us.
As you said also about the choice to be mindful - which is a separate aspect of the choice but that too is also a (meta-?) choice! I feel like I know, somewhat, how to excercise, but I really have no clue how people maintain their mental health. All the more so when it goes beyond "maintenance mode" into actively trying to heal from past wounds. Nor would I trust any resource that said that it knew, unfortunately. e.g., churches say that they know... and who knows, maybe they do? Like people, it would vary according to the individual one.
I do not know if I would say that I am "happy" with myself, but on the other hand I look at others who experience their own pains that are caused from the fruits of their own labors and... yeah, I see that. I often do not want to see that, but I do. I definitely see too much, yet also too little at the same time? As do we all.
Well, I am glad that my problems are amusing to you then - sheesh! (/s, I know you know but to be abundantly clear!:-P)
This is part 2, space timey wimy goodness:
It is fundamentally difficult to grasp, yeah. CS Lewis has an illustration that I will
borrowblatantly steal outright: imagine an outside entity who "sees" the entire trajectory of your life as a line, with all its twists and curves, and then, perhaps on a whim or to make it more beautiful art, decides to "outline" it, like maybe a highlighter or let us rather say one line "above"/to the left and another line "below"/to the right of it. From your perspective, your life appears "hemmed in", outlined, bordered by those two lines - as if you had no choices in the matter? Yet, that outside agent was the one who drew the lines, but following YOUR choices! That at least is the simplistic version, but it gets even weirder if, while the outside agent is drawing those outlining lines, your own lifeline changes in response. So if the agent starts drawing from the beginning of your life to the end, the final trajectory could change - according to YOUR choices, but in response to THEIR choices, which were themselves based on YOUR choices to begin with. Notice the caveat inherent in that: the "you" may change, from an alternate-reality you without interference from that outside agent, to now the "you" that has done so.Even weirder, what if that "outside agent", who I mentioned earlier plays you like a chess piece pawn, isn't "God" or whatever, but YOU! In that case, "you" are the video game or storybook or whatever character, but in this formulation, the external agent is also YOU - moreover it would be the REAL you, whereas the one inside this reality is the lesser version. Ofc, here you must somehow have "forgotten" your true, higher self. And as you brought up, there may not be a 1:1 correlation between each of us down here vs. ourselves up there - all humans could come from just 1 or a few up there, or whatever. Anything is possible there, and we are only limited by our imaginations here. What we know for certain here is that what Religion tells us in this regard is fundamentally flawed and wrong - b/c it is inconsistent e.g. even the people saying so do not practice what they preach - but we do not necessarily know what the True reality is. Now we see only in part. I still like thinking along those lines b/c there are multiple ways to be wrong, and thereby thinking along several different lines could help lead us to Truth - e.g. we might not be "actually" one being (I sincerely doubt it, I see no evidence of it at least), but is there any doubt that we are all "connected" nonetheless?
This one hits me hard - my (autism-spectrumed?) brain constantly forgets this and wants to pick up right where it left off - more a reflection of my own reduced capacity to handle things than anything to do with reality. Speaking of, I had already forgotten that beautiful perspective that you had shared with me about nations changing. Stuff at my job, weird weather, for a few days my exercise schedule has been interrupted and I am just "off", and just like that it had already slipped through my fingers, again. Maybe, or at least I mean it did at the conscious level. That said, I tend not to try to hold onto anything too strongly, trusting that if it is good that it will find its way back to me in time. That... is nowhere close to true though:-(, and yet I know that I CANNOT hold onto things no matter how I try, so it is demotivating to even try.
And I think there is an evolutionary reason for this: community. No one person - a sage on a mountaintop lets say - can or even should really try to have it all, all the knowledge, all the wisdom, all the perfection. Rather, if we choose to surround ourselves with those who are worthwhile, and distance ourselves from idiots (it seems sad but what else can you do but that? they are hell-bent on their own destruction, and they will absolutely take you down with them!), then we can keep reminding ourselves of these beautiful Truths.
Or, so I say anyway, but then I don't actually DO it - oopsie, I guess I too am one of those who says one thing yet does the polar opposite, an "idiot" even. As too are we all, but one difference, not sure I can take "credit" for any of it but just saying it as a fact (or so it seems to me): some of us, for whatever reason, desire to know the Truth, and Reason, and Mind, while some of us, again for whatever reason, do not. THAT makes all the difference in the world, b/c I will eventually find what I seek, with effort + time, while they literally never will (and even if they stumbled upon it, they would set it back down again without realizing its significance). So I am grateful that I care, and therefore... almost grateful for the pain that I lived through that made me care. Most people would have no idea whatsoever what that means, but I don't even need to explain it further than that, b/c you already do.
I hope these thoughts are at least halfway entertaining:-D.
That is so relatable hahah. I think it's normal and that we all have those moments but I also do not know what normal is. I think that's where meditation and mindfulness can be really helpful. You sometimes must make a conscious effort to remind yourself of these things because the world we've built is just so overwhelming at times, it's easy to get caught up in it and forget. It's kind of like weightlifting for the mind/soul hahah. If you stop training you're gonna lose all them gainz!
Well of course. You are the sum of your experiences and if you are at a point where you are happy with who you are, then you must appreciate the pain you've had to endure to get there.
Absolutely! They have managed to take up an hour of what seemed to be the start of a pretty boring day.
Hehe, isn't it fun that we know nothing? Well, whether it is or not, that's just the way it is, so we adapt - it's what we are good at, and all that could ever possibly be done regardless:-P.
People that think (& act) as if their actions do not affect others do so as a result of that CHOICE to act exactly that way - just as those of us who do the opposite do as well. Facts may have little to nothing to do with that choice, except for some very few of us.
As you said also about the choice to be mindful - which is a separate aspect of the choice but that too is also a (meta-?) choice! I feel like I know, somewhat, how to excercise, but I really have no clue how people maintain their mental health. All the more so when it goes beyond "maintenance mode" into actively trying to heal from past wounds. Nor would I trust any resource that said that it knew, unfortunately. e.g., churches say that they know... and who knows, maybe they do? Like people, it would vary according to the individual one.
I do not know if I would say that I am "happy" with myself, but on the other hand I look at others who experience their own pains that are caused from the fruits of their own labors and... yeah, I see that. I often do not want to see that, but I do. I definitely see too much, yet also too little at the same time? As do we all.
Well, I am glad that my problems are amusing to you then - sheesh! (/s, I know you know but to be abundantly clear!:-P)