I just wanted specified examples so that I could look them up.
In the city I used to live in, in the early 2000s, there was a big thing when a video of a men's support group, for mental health, came out where the organizer was on a very misogynistic rant. This place also had limited shelter for men who were homeless due to things like divorce. Soon after it got shut down. Not long after that, a video of a women's support group, for rape victims, came out, and it had members there going on similar rants towards men. So there was a heap of shit about it, and that group lost the lease to the space they used, and no one else would let them in. It was very much pushed as "you shut down the men, you need to shut down the women" thing.
Few months later the guy on the tape, along with like 1/3 of the people associated with that group, at that time, were indicted for a variety of crimes. Namely the organized stalking, and harassment of women. Mostly ex's of the members, but some others for different reasons. Most of them were convicted. This is why it was shut down. Not because of the tape. So the women's support group was targeted, and pushed out, because people believe they were getting quid pro quo for the men's group. Only for it to show it was organized, criminal, behavior that got it shut down, not their misogyny. So, in the end, these women lost their space because of a far lesser wrong, in the name of equality.
Also, I hear a lot about how men's online spaces are shut down more than women's. Both being bigoted towards the other. However, when I looked into the post discussing them getting shut-down it was always because they were doing something extra, like brigading other places, stalking, and harassing, other women on the site, and posting lots of public calls for illegal activities. They generally given more than one chance to snuff that shit out too, they just didn't. Where as most of the awful femcel kinda places either didn't that far, didn't organize like that on their space, or were warned and then the mods started shutting that shit down.
So I always have my suspicions with this topic. Not that it hasn't happened, as you say, but, the majority I have seen, weren't shutdown for such simple reasons. Though they all had people crying about how they got shut down for misogyny, yet x place with femcels didn't.
Yeah, but liberals should know better. And also brigadkmg is a problem all around reddit it's not exclusively men
And slightly related I think there is a lot of misandry in conservativism that the left refuses talk about for some reason
There is a lot of misandry in conservatism, and liberalism, and leftism. However, the root for it differs from conservatism, and the other two position. While it isn't a huge talking point, I wouldn't say it is not something that is really ignored. Maybe it is so in "pop" leftist media? Like breadtube type stuff?
I wasn't trying to imply that men's spaces, on various fora, were the only ones with bad behavior. I was pointing out that, when a lot of these places were shut down, a lot of them cried misandry because x misandrist forum is still up. However, when you look at the situation, it wasn't the misogynistic conversation that got them banned, it was the actions they coordinated on their fora. I have also seen a number of misandrist spaces get shut down too. Again though, it was because they refused to stop bad actions on their forum, and moderate it out.
Yes liberals, and leftists, should know better. Unfortunately you are broaching a subject with A LOT of strong emotional value to it. It is awful that there are, practically, no support groups for male victims of rape, and, even though there is often no indicator it is only for women, they are pushed out of those places because a lot of those women, straight up, are afraid of men. Men have traumatized them to the point where they cannot feel safe around them, and/or get a visceral reaction to a strange man being there. And yes, there is a lot of resentment in these communities towards men. They are mentally, and often physically, scarred by the actions of men. It isn't fair, but these emotions, trauma responses, etc. are not rational. They are real though, and they are exceedingly difficult to deal with. It is actually very difficult for them to truly view men as, mostly, decent human beings, because of trauma. Especially so because men are responsible for damn near all sexual violence, and homicide.
This isn't easy. There are no clear ways to deal with this situation. However, men are the root cause of most of it. As you have pointed out, the men higher on the hierarchy are incentivized, in many ways, to maintain this status quo. That is a class conflict situation, between those lower on the hierarchy, and the men who are in control. As more women come into power, both in government, and in the commercial/industrial world, things will change. Exactly how is yet to be seen.
So if we are yhe problem why try?
Are you trying to say that it is impossible to change?
I just wanted specified examples so that I could look them up.
In the city I used to live in, in the early 2000s, there was a big thing when a video of a men's support group, for mental health, came out where the organizer was on a very misogynistic rant. This place also had limited shelter for men who were homeless due to things like divorce. Soon after it got shut down. Not long after that, a video of a women's support group, for rape victims, came out, and it had members there going on similar rants towards men. So there was a heap of shit about it, and that group lost the lease to the space they used, and no one else would let them in. It was very much pushed as "you shut down the men, you need to shut down the women" thing.
Few months later the guy on the tape, along with like 1/3 of the people associated with that group, at that time, were indicted for a variety of crimes. Namely the organized stalking, and harassment of women. Mostly ex's of the members, but some others for different reasons. Most of them were convicted. This is why it was shut down. Not because of the tape. So the women's support group was targeted, and pushed out, because people believe they were getting quid pro quo for the men's group. Only for it to show it was organized, criminal, behavior that got it shut down, not their misogyny. So, in the end, these women lost their space because of a far lesser wrong, in the name of equality.
Also, I hear a lot about how men's online spaces are shut down more than women's. Both being bigoted towards the other. However, when I looked into the post discussing them getting shut-down it was always because they were doing something extra, like brigading other places, stalking, and harassing, other women on the site, and posting lots of public calls for illegal activities. They generally given more than one chance to snuff that shit out too, they just didn't. Where as most of the awful femcel kinda places either didn't that far, didn't organize like that on their space, or were warned and then the mods started shutting that shit down.
So I always have my suspicions with this topic. Not that it hasn't happened, as you say, but, the majority I have seen, weren't shutdown for such simple reasons. Though they all had people crying about how they got shut down for misogyny, yet x place with femcels didn't.
Yeah, but liberals should know better. And also brigadkmg is a problem all around reddit it's not exclusively men
And slightly related I think there is a lot of misandry in conservativism that the left refuses talk about for some reason
There is a lot of misandry in conservatism, and liberalism, and leftism. However, the root for it differs from conservatism, and the other two position. While it isn't a huge talking point, I wouldn't say it is not something that is really ignored. Maybe it is so in "pop" leftist media? Like breadtube type stuff?
I wasn't trying to imply that men's spaces, on various fora, were the only ones with bad behavior. I was pointing out that, when a lot of these places were shut down, a lot of them cried misandry because x misandrist forum is still up. However, when you look at the situation, it wasn't the misogynistic conversation that got them banned, it was the actions they coordinated on their fora. I have also seen a number of misandrist spaces get shut down too. Again though, it was because they refused to stop bad actions on their forum, and moderate it out.
Yes liberals, and leftists, should know better. Unfortunately you are broaching a subject with A LOT of strong emotional value to it. It is awful that there are, practically, no support groups for male victims of rape, and, even though there is often no indicator it is only for women, they are pushed out of those places because a lot of those women, straight up, are afraid of men. Men have traumatized them to the point where they cannot feel safe around them, and/or get a visceral reaction to a strange man being there. And yes, there is a lot of resentment in these communities towards men. They are mentally, and often physically, scarred by the actions of men. It isn't fair, but these emotions, trauma responses, etc. are not rational. They are real though, and they are exceedingly difficult to deal with. It is actually very difficult for them to truly view men as, mostly, decent human beings, because of trauma. Especially so because men are responsible for damn near all sexual violence, and homicide.
This isn't easy. There are no clear ways to deal with this situation. However, men are the root cause of most of it. As you have pointed out, the men higher on the hierarchy are incentivized, in many ways, to maintain this status quo. That is a class conflict situation, between those lower on the hierarchy, and the men who are in control. As more women come into power, both in government, and in the commercial/industrial world, things will change. Exactly how is yet to be seen.
So if we are yhe problem why try?
Are you trying to say that it is impossible to change?
Not with the way we are going about it.