Lemmy's gaining popularity, so I thought new people should see this.locked

Fediverse@lemmy.world – 383 points – 2 weeks ago

cross-posted from: https://feddit.nl/post/16246531

I feel like we need to talk about Lemmy's massive tankie censorship problem. A lot of popular lemmy communities are hosted on lemmy.ml. It's been well known for a while that the admins/mods of that instance have, let's say, rather extremist and onesided political views. In short, they're what's colloquially referred to as tankies. This wouldn't be much of an issue if they didn't regularly abuse their admin/mod status to censor and silence people who dissent with their political beliefs and for example, post things critical of China, Russia, the USSR, socialism, ...

As an example, there was a thread today about the anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre. When I was reading it, there were mostly posts critical of China in the thread and some whataboutist/denialist replies critical of the USA and the west. In terms of votes, the posts critical of China were definitely getting the most support.

I posted a comment in this thread linking to "https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs" (WARNING: graphical content), which describes aspects of the atrocities that aren't widely known even in the West, and supporting evidence. My comment was promptly removed for violating the "Be nice and civil" rule. When I looked back at the thread, I noticed that all posts critical of China had been removed while the whataboutist and denialist comments were left in place.

This is what the modlog of the instance looks like:

Definitely a trend there wouldn't you say?

When I called them out on their one sided censorship, with a screenshot of the modlog above, I promptly received a community ban on all communities on lemmy.ml that I had ever participated in.

Proof:

So many of you will now probably think something like: "So what, it's the fediverse, you can use another instance."

The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they're not so easy to replace. I mean, in terms of content and engagement lemmy is already a pretty small place as it is. So it's rather pointless sitting for example in /c/linux@some.random.other.instance.world where there's nobody to discuss anything with.

I'm not sure if there's a solution here, but I'd like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

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Hang on now. Fascists are historically the "third position" (which is why both the left and the right got together in about 1939 to stomp their collective shit in.) They're neither "right" nor "left."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position

Fascism is described as both "Capitalism in decay" and as "Imperialism turned inward." It served and serves the bourgeoisie and petite bourgeoisie against the Proletariat and Lumpenproletariat, and historically arises when the Petite Bourgeoisie is facing proletarianization. That's why the most violently MAGA are small business owners and the like, and why they think immigrants are the ones proletarianizing them.

I highly recommend reading the first chapter of Blackshirts and Reds by Dr. Michael Parenti, which covers the material conditions surrounding fascism and who it served.

Fascism has been described as a teacher telling a student to shut up in class too, just because someone says something doesn't make it true.

Sure, so can you explain what you disagree with about what I have said, and why you believe fascism to not be left nor right? I am aware of "Third Positionists," they serve Capitalists and arise from Capitalist decay.

It's going to be useless to explain it to you, you've already made up your mind, and since I'm no longer shitting and have things to do today I'm going to have to decline your request to waste my time explaining natsocs.

What gives you the right to call me a Nazi for saying "fascism is right-wing?" That's incredibly rude, entirely uncalled for, and utterly unfounded in reality.

When the hell did I do that? Lmao dude are you ok? Talk about unfounded in reality lmao:

It's going to be useless to explain it to you, you've already made up your mind, and since I'm no longer shitting and have things to do today I'm going to have to decline your request to waste my time explaining natsocs.

Where did I call you a nazi? Is it "it's useless to explain it to you, you've already made up your mind?" So Nazi = Guy who already made up his mind? Ooook.

Or was it "I'm done shitting," and nazis are people I talk to while shitting? Seems weird to define that way but ok I guess.

Or maybe "decline your request to waste my time explaining natsocs?" So, then, anyone I won't waste my time talking to, they must be nazis? I mean yeah they usually do fall into that category too but it isn't exclusive to them.

Ah, I misread, I thought you said "explaining to Natsocs like you" and not "explaining Natsocs to you." My bad, I apologize.

That being said, you were the one coming in to dispute my claim that fascism is right-wing, and the second I pushed back you said it would be a waste of time to explain, I just think that's a bit silly. Did you expect me to fully agree with you instantaneously?

Ah ok no harm no foul then!

And I provided a link you didn't read, you provided a link I didn't read. Fair's fair. Plus it isn't actually about convincing you, it's about leaving a record to let other people read and not just take your words at face value. You're too far gone.

For clarity, I did read the link you sent. I've read it before.

Plus it isn't actually about convincing you, it's about leaving a record to let other people read and not just take your words at face value. You're too far gone

That's fine, I am doing the same for you. I doubt you'll be convinced, but it's important to correct blatant misconceptions about Marxism IMO.

Sure, and maybe I have some, but they were put there by "marxists" I've argued with in the past. I'm sure they're no true marxist of course lol. If people stick around here long enough they'll see what I'm talking about for themselves.

If I see nonsense like that I'll correct it, but I maintain that it's more likely than not a misunderstanding of what was stated, if you aren't going to link an example.

Fascists paint themselves as being a third position that supercedes the left-right dichotomy, but that doesn't mean it's actually true. Everything about it is right-wing and it's not actually as incompatible with capitalism as fascists claim. Every fascist regime has partnered up with capitalists, who often support them into power in the first place.

Since you linked to another Wikipedia article, you should know that Wikipedia defines fascism as far-right:

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

And it also defines it as third position, as per the article I linked earlier. Again, some define fascism as "mommy said I can't go to the party" so oooooohhhhh.

Fact of the matter is fascists, if you've ever talked to a real one, are neither capitalist nor communist (again, hence that whole "World War Two" fiasco they teamed up for.) Thus "third position."

No, the article you linked says "The Third Position is a set of neo-fascist political ideologies". It does not say that fascism in general is neither left or right. I'm not talking about the word "fascist" used as an insult.

"From the article I linked:"

The term "Third Position" was coined in Europe and the main precursors of Third Position politics were Italian fascism, Legionarism, Falangism, Prussian socialism, National Bolshevism (a synthesis of far-right ultranationalism and far-left Bolshevism) and Strasserism (a radical, mass-action, worker-based form of Nazism, advocated by the "left-wing" of the Nazi Party by brothers Otto and Gregor Strasser, until it was crushed in the Night of the Long Knives in 1934). Neo-fascist, neo-Nazi author Francis Parker Yockey had proposed an alliance between communists and fascists called the red-brown alliance (Red being the color of communism and Brown being the color of Nazism). Yockey lent support to Third World liberation movements as well.

In the United States, Political Research Associates argues that Third Position politics has been promoted by some white nationalist and neo-Nazi groups such as the National Alliance, American Front, Traditionalist Worker Party, Patriot Front, and White Aryan Resistance, as well as some black nationalist groups, such as the Nation of Islam, since the late 20th century.[16] In 2010, the American Third Position Party (later renamed American Freedom Party) was founded in part to channel the right-wing populist resentment engendered by the financial crisis of 2007–08 and the policies of the Obama administration.

During his early years in Nazi Party as SS-Gauführer, Nazi leader Heinrich Himmler worked briefly as a deputy of Gregor Strasser, then head of party propaganda department. Influenced heavily by Strasserist ideas, Himmler attacked capitalism and viewed socialism as "the natural economic system" during the 1920s.[4] Germany's Chancellor, General Kurt von Schleicher (in office 1932–33), attempted to induce the more left-wing Strasserist segment of the Nazi Party to merge with the trade unions as way of forcing Hitler to support his government, but his plan failed.

Jfc lmao. You're wrong, deal with it loser. Neither right nor left, "Third Position."

Your quote from the article describes the Third Position, not fascism in general. It does not say that fascism in general is neither left nor right. No need to get mad because you misread a Wikipedia article.

Why don't you wait until they're all up quicksilver, don't have shit else to do tonight but troll on lemmy?

When you link a Wikipedia article, you can expect others to read it and call you out on it when it doesn't say what you claim it says. Wikipedia is very consistent with labelling fascism as far-right.

https://politicalresearch.org/2016/12/19/what-third-position

https://fascipedia.org/index.php/Third_positionism (holy shit, they have their own wiki?! Well here they are literally saying it themselves I guess ffs)

Is your gripe that the OG nazis hadn't invented the term yet, and so technically it's neonazis (the kind that exist today, well, outside of fucking nursing homes anyway) who are the third position? If so quit your semantic bullshit, go troll someone else.