ExIsraeliAnarchist

Zionists invaded Palestine in 1947-48

Being deliberately ignorant of history isn't helping anyone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_and\_Judaism\_in\_the\_Land\_of\_Israel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish\_diaspora

I do not support the apartheid state of Israel or the illegal settlements and occupation of Palestine, but Jewish people belong on parts of that land just as much as Palestinians belong on others, and this conflict will never be resolved as long as people, especially those who brush of thousands of years of history aside as nuance because its easier than actually making an effort to understand it, argue that only one group has a rightful claim to the land.

An anarchist should be supporting the people, not one state or another, and this isn't to say that there is a power balance or that both sides are responsible, no, only Israel is, but those in power over both people are using them as pawns to stay in power. They are the ones who need to be removed.

Did you fully read the post you shared or my reply?

I already quoted the part that's inaccurate, also the post you shared isn't calling simply for liberation from occupation, which I support, its calling for the displacement of Israelis basically "back to where they came form", ignoring that they came form the region of Palestine/Israel, and mostly displaced by their own oppressors generations ago, while still maintaining some continuous settlement the region (so no, they didn't sudenly turn up in 47-48, and Zionism is about a hundred years older than that - like I say, it's easier to brush off as nuance than even learn the basics).

You don't free one people by displacing another. You free both by freeing them from the people playing them against each other and stopping peace for power.

It's interesting how often people who oppose the existence of Israel (not to be confused with being rightfuly critical of its actions) are the first too make us feel unwelcome and tell Jew who facing antisemitism outside of Israel, that we just need to deal with it (and even expect it, acording to you), and if we don't like it, we should just leave.. But where is it we should be going..?
It's almost as if what you really want is for Jews to just not exist.

Furthermore, there’s an unwritten rule the ultra-orthodox parties do not involve themselves or even voice an opinion on military matters

Only this isn't true Deri (of Shas and convicted felon) is in the war cabinet for crying out loud.
You are really naive if you think they don't get a say in everything that goes on, and deliberately ignoring reality if you can't admit that there diversion of funds for their own causes and communities has deprived the rest of the country not only of the security it needed on 7.10, but of health and social and community funding for everyone else, for decades.

The amount of power the ultra orthodox hold is obscene.

Sorry to link to facebook, but this is a relevant post I saw a few days ago to do with this, in Hebrew, see general idea bellow

https://www.facebook.com/lan2lan.sta2sim/posts/pfbid0sok4nDuSW3tNixKg6Ba9oSZz21t9gKLNTeEarKo6KQrQjHkqYehJRRnEe1uPUbul

Basically the man in the photo speaking too Netanyahu, Shmuel Medad, is one of those who joined the meeting uninvited at the last minute and who wasn't known to any of the other families. This and other photos from the meeting of parents hugging Netanyahu were not taken by anyone in the original group of families, but have been published as 'officially' from the families of the kidnapped and in their name.

Medad is the head of honenu a far right nationalist legal aid organisation.

He is close friends and works with another man, Hagai Ben Artzi.

Hagai Ben Artzi is Sarah Netanyahus' brother.

And it gets worse, Shmuels' wife Etti has started a protest camp opposing the existing protest camp already started by the families of the kidnapped, to 'represent' the families that are pro-Netanyahu, and shout abuse at the other families that are calling for him to e made accountable.

I wish I could say they at least get money or something, but they're probably happy just being considered "close to" the PM.

Just to give people an idea of how bad the corruption is at every level and how Netanyahu is only looking out for himself (he's thrown the entire region in to war to try and cling to power, he does 5 of these 'mini' corruptions before breakfast)...

I was lucky enough to have dual nationality and left many years ago, but then I always knew I would because I never felt like I fit in there, so I have no regrets, except for not leaving sooner - before the army would have been better, but I wasn't able too get out of it.

Be prepared though - life as an immigrant and a foreigner can have it's own challenges, as can being a Jew outside of Israel, and the "grass" - the political and social aspects of life might be different, but it isn't necessarily greener - fascism is on the rise more or less everywhere you go, as is the cost of living.

You only get one life, as long as you aren't harming anyone - do what's best for you, and remember that to create a better society the workers of the world need to unite, so it doesn't matter where you are physically, you can and should still be part of a force for change.

I don't want to give too much personal information, but if you have any questions, I can do my best to answer.

I do think there can be legitimate criticism of Israel and zionism that is not antisemitic (like accepting that Jews deserve a safe place to live on our ancestral land, but also that ethno-states are a bad thing), but I do agree that, especially online almost all anti-zionism comes from an antisemitic place, or at least an ignorant one.

Mandatory service doesn't mean they don't get cushy jobs (if they want them) though.
Yair Netanyahu was never going anywhere near the front lines (he was in the Spokesperson's Unit), and nor do many other children-of (not only politicians of course, but they do have a lot of influence), they get jobs at headquarters or some other nice safe place, the military bands/entertainment units are notoriously where many a nepo-baby has got their start..

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to just get up and move country? Or to try to immigrate from a war zone to a developed country? Have you seen how the (especially non white/european) people who try are being treated??
As an ex-Israeli I was lucky enough to be able to do it many many years ago because I have dual nationality and family elsewhere I was able to depend on, but most Israelis, never mind Palestinians, don't have either, or the money to be able to afford to move, or a country that will allow them in.
Check your privilege.

Did you fully read the post you shared or my reply?

"Well, Jewish people need a place where they won't be discriminated against" I absolutely agree. so make every country in the world safe for Jewish people.

How you can interpret this as anything other than displacing the Jewish people from that region, is on you.

As for my "agenda" - it's to share from my lived experience and knowledge of this conflict (which most of you have none) to push for REAL peace and freedom for ALL of the people of that region (and it looks copy-pasted because the erasure of Jewish history on the land is always the same), and as I already said - ignoring thousands of years of history because you're too lazy to learn it properly, and reducing the conflict to an "easy" but useless solution to fit your black and white view, is a sure fire way to ever let that happen. If you want to continue to do so, knock yourself out, but erasing the parts that are inconvenient to your agenda, only demonstrates your ignorance and unwillingness for there to be an real and viable solution to a conflict you openly refuse to understand (until we are free of states and nations, the ONLY viable solution is a two state one, where both people share the land).

No one is forcing you to double down, you can just put your hand up and say that in your quest to ignore nuance you uncritically shared a post that didn't say what you think it did (unless you agree that Jews have no history or place in the region and should all be removed and displaced to countries they have nothing to do with, which I don't think you do) and admit it's an uninformed shit take. A straightforward "free Palestine" or even "fuck the state of Israel" meme would serve everyone much better.

How about they just stay in Israel and quit expanding into other peoples countries?

That's fine, so how about people say that, instead of shit like "from the river to the sea"?

People making the point you just did are clearly not the one's I'm talking about, and pretending like no one thinks and says out loud that Jews have no place in the region is basically gaslighting.

That person defined anti-semitism such that significant fraction of Jew are anti-semites by that definition.

and, as a Jewish anti-zionist, I disagreed with them.

But that still doesn't change the fact that actual antisemites hide behind the excuse of anti-zionism to continue to spread antisemitism. the thread we're commenting on is a live example of this, and minimising this fact helps the antisemites.

I don't support the state of Israel, but I hate this bullshit argument so much - where do you think the European Jews came from to Europe, and why?

They came from Israel (the region, not the state, which didn't exist then) which they were expelled from, over generations, again and again, buy actual colonisers. And only wanted too return after centuries of pogroms that culminated in the holocaust, which was perpetrated by actual white supremacists.

Are racism, xenophobia, islamophobia and colourism all happening, and are influenced by white supremacy? Yes. Can Jews ever really be considered white supremacists? Not by any actual white supremacist, so no..

Is the state of Israel and the illegal settlements it supports now occupying some lands that aren't theres and oppressing the Palestinians whos lands those are? Yes.

Should they give those lands back and let their rightful residents live on them in peace (and be willing to share the places that are culturally and historically to both)? Yes.

Is Israel an apartheid state that discriminates against its Arab citizens? Yes.

Do Palestinians deserve freedom? Yes.

Does any of this erase thousands of years of history and mean that Jews, from wherever the fuck they were expelled to in the diaspora don't also have a rightful place on the land or are in any way comparable to actual colonisers who went to foreign lands they nor their ancestors had never set foot on and take them over? Absolutely fucking not.

More people really should actually study the history before making such ignorant claims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_and\_Judaism\_in\_the\_Land\_of\_Israel

What’s disturbing is that the Israelian government seems to care very little about those hostages.

They don't care at all, Netanyahu and his right wing cohorts are so concerned with holding on too their seats that they don't even realise that taking responsibility for this mess and focusing on freeing the hostages would get a lot of the population to back them again (they shouldn't, but they would), to them conflict = distraction = more time to fund more illegal settlements to make sure another conflict is always coming up, all so they can keep living like kings at the expense of the whole region.

And of course not at the same level, but Hamas leadership aren't acting in the best interest of their people either, yes, they are reacting to oppression which is understandable, but they're doing it a way that won't ever lead to that oppression ending, but only to their population to be decimated (if they had attacked only military targets and power/water supply and transportation routs like destroying roads and railways, they could have shut Israel down, add maybe banks or other financial institutions, and they would have put the Israeli government in a much harder position)

we were pretty much raised drenched in the same kind of propaganda

"pretty much" being the key words, since the white people who colonised SA had never set foot there before nor had any history or claim to the land, while that absolutely isn't the case for Jewish people returning to their homeland.

a functioning government

Tell me you know nothing about Israeli politics without saying you know nothing about Israeli politics (the country is run by a bunch of literal criminals. Do they care about the Palestinians? No. But do they care about the Israelis who aren't directly related to them, and even then not always? Also no. If someone told you "Israel the only democracy in the middle east" you'd call bullshit, and you'd be right, so don't pull out a "functioning government" when it's convenient. they are run by fascists, standing up to those in power is becoming harder and harder, just look at the last few elections and the reactions to protests)

It's disingenuous to post those wikis without also posting these

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_and\_Judaism\_in\_the\_Land\_of\_Israel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish\_diaspora

and because people can't separate acknowledgment of reality from support of it - I don't support Israel, which is occupying some Palestinian lands, and is undeniably oppressing Palestinians who deserve to be free. At the same time, other parts of the land are the ancestral land of the Jewish people, they didn't just "decide" this or "turn up one day" out of nowhere, it's historical fact. But you know what? Both can be and are true, and ignoring history doesn't change that, it only makes your position weaker because you're clearly speaking from ignorance, deliberate or otherwise, and don't (or refuse to) understand the true complexity of this conflict and the history of the region.