Teal Dragon

Do people really believe that 20 year olds are children and no one ever in the entire history of the world ever noticed this, and the only people who ever got this right are in the USA in the last 20 years?

That is just astoundingly ridiculous.

and teenagers drive the same cars as all other adults on the same roads as all other adults to the same jobs as all other adults where they do the same work as all other adults and get the same wages as all other adults and pay the same taxes as all other adults

for all of human history we have known that teenagers are adults

advanced research into neural pathways changes nothing. they are still just as capable of doing all the things they've been doing for thousands of years regardless of what some morons claim about their white matter or prefrontal cortexes.

the brain is by far the least understood organ in the human body, and lots of clickbait bullshit pseudo-science has convinced people that everyone under 25 is a retard. it doesn't take a genius to figure out that teens would be just fine, if we only treated them with basic respect and gave them a chance.

history is replete with examples of that happening. the current level of infantilization of young adults aged 14-24 in the USA is completely unprecedented. it's a huge experiment, and as their rates of depression, self-harm, and suicide have skyrocketed it's safe to say this path is disastrous, evil, or both.

13 year olds are also different from 19 year olds

and 13 year olds are different from 7 year olds

I have seen people literally argue that a romantic relationship MUST be abusive because one of the lovers is only 19 and therefore "still a teen" ... the dogma that says teens are children is absolutely false and it is damaging the hell out of young people.

This 4 minute vid explains it pretty well. https://youtu.be/12J1f0Zqaqw

Teens are adults. We reach Tanner Stage 5 on average at 14 years of age now. This is not in dispute. The science is clear. You just dislike it, so you deflect to irrelevant garbage about some neural pathways that change a bit when you're 20 :-D

Everything you write fuels bigotry against a hated demographic.

Teens usually have less experience than older adults. So they will be at a disadvantage.

You write that my posts have nothing to do with the topic, but my posts are the topic. You have veered off into totally irrelevant nonsense about neural pathways.

The vast majority of brain development happens ages 0-3 and 9-13. We get adult brains along with our adult bodies during puberty. That is scientific fact. The fact that brains age even after puberty is not new info, nor is it relevant at all to anything. Our brains slow down as we age. Maturity is not always a good thing.

re: "has convinced people that everyone under 25 is a retard" Yes. Sensational clickbait headlines about very unreliable fMRI studies did that. I am talking about public opinion here. You links to studies of tiny brain changes make no difference. Nobody cares. Read the nasty crap peeps write about under 25s. They have truly been convinced that youth are brain-dead morons who must be shunned if not locked up entirely.

Incidentally teen brains aged 13-15 perform best on several types of cognitive test.

again, data that bigots choose to ignore.

You're just repeating the stupid shit that everybody wants to believe.

Why not provide some evidence?

Oh, you can't. because there is none. Hmmmmmm.

Your position, that puberty is irrelevant, and the only thing that makes humans adults is a vague kind of "maturity" measured only by minute changes in the least-understood organ in the human body, is appallingly stupid.

Like, I can't believe that you're not just trolling me. How on earth can you claim something so obviously not true?

I'm blocking you. Rethink your life. You don't have to be a useless blockhead troll forever.

If a child is raised by wolves do they ever become "mature"?

"maturity" is purely subjective. there is no way to measure it. what is perceived as mature varies a lot from culture to culture.

Nature makes us adults through a process called puberty. Society cannot change that. It is biological reality.

If you lock people out of adult society they gain no life experience.

Strictly keeping youth out of bars because they have no "life experience" means they'll never get the "life experience" you think they need to be considered adults and allowed into bars. It's a system for maintaining child status permanently.

Your subjective opinions on who is "mature" are irrelevant.

You chose to ignore all of the obvious signs of adulthood. Instead you want to cherry-pick a few insignificant changes in the brain and say "these are the only things that matter for maturity"

Sorry. That's just very stupid.

It would be equally valid to claim that pubic hair, or menstruation, or any other adult trait is the only one that matters.

You think that there's a difference between 26 year olds and 16 year olds. Well, yes, there is. But many 26 year olds can pass for 16 and vice versa. Because they are both adults. 16 year olds cannot pass for 6 year olds or vice versa. 6 year olds are children.

After puberty humans are adults. This is not difficult. Desperately searching for neuological data so you can claim 17 year olds are children is dumb. Stop doing it. Nobody benefits from you supporting bigotry. Stop it.

This two-minute video can explain it to your muddled mind:

https://youtu.be/tCaPPyQda04

I want people to respect each other. and unwarranted infantilization is very damaging. Our teens are having a massive mental health crisis right now. They are depressed as hell and killing themselves at rates never before seen. The way we treat them like shit, tell them they're idiots and will be for 10 more years contributes to this.

Do you know how many factors are considered when calculating the Tanner Scale?

It is a complex and comprehensive measure of puberty.

Puberty is what makes us adults.

The fact that you can deny that with a straight face is amazing.

Odd how our bodies reach adult height and brains adult size during puberty :-)

You have cherrypicked your sources. All of neurology points to very fact that brains develop very quickly ages 9-13 and then very slow change from that point on.

but that data doesn't support your bigotry, so you ignore it.

Your first sentence is completely wrong.

Your straw man at the end is stupid bad-faith bullshit. The vast majority of teens are no longer 13.

There are other factors, of course, but getting treated like shit, being constantly told you're a moron, having your sex life criminalized, constantly being told you'll get groomed and preyed on because you're an idiot, getting zero respect, and having no legal rights is a major cause of the mental health crisis (which happened simultaneously with the change of paradigm from teens = young adults to teens = large children)

Everybody has tons of opinions on what they are mature enough for or not mature enough for

but as a matter of simple fact, they are adults.

Do you have any substance? and real argument?

or just vacuous insults is enough for you?

Human brains are largest around age 13.

They never stop changing. But is "maturing" development or decay? or both?

We all know that teens are adults and that their brains work fine. People are just desperate to justify aiming hateful bigotry at them.

Oooooo. The old "anyone who disagrees with me is a pedo" argument.

Clever.

Yes it has.

and internet randos claiming qualifications they obviously don't have is pathetic trollery.

What is "general maturity"? What is the scientific tool used to measure it?

or you just made up some bullshit to justify your bigotry against young adults aged 14-20?

"Brains fully developed at 25" is an urban myth. It has been thoroughly debunked.

Slate did an excellent summary of the debunking:

https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html

#Neurology #Junk #JunkScience #Science #TeensAreAdults #RespectYoungAdults #biology #teens #teenagers #infantilization #ageist #bigotry

Pathetic fool loses the argument so he starts hurling vile insults :-D

Sorry Clown. You lost.

The Tanner Scale measures puberty.

Puberty is the line between childhood and adulthood.

It's really that simple.

If you think there is some other better line, then present your case. Casting dopey aspersions on me just makes you look like a fool.

There are clear obvious scientific facts at work here. They are not technicalities.

How I feel does not make reality real. If I feel like a dog, I am still human.

Nature makes us adults. The process is called puberty. There are several visible objective secondary sexual characteristics which make pretty damned clear who is where in the process.

Teenagers Are Adults

(not sure this is an opinion. it's biological fact. but peeps get VERY Angry when I write it)

re: "human psychological development doesn’t end until about 23-25"

This is an urban myth. It has been thoroughly debunked.

re: "our level of intelligence requires a longer incubation time"

Your example was dogs. They reach adulthood in around 1 year. We take longer, yes, about 14 years.

Never before in human history have teenagers been as intensely infantilized as they are in the USA right now.

Look at pre-literate societies too.

The idea that we are children until some time in our early twenties is brand new. Nobody ever considered such ridiculous bullshit until about 20 years ago. Now there are huge numbers of Americans thoroughly convinced of this obviously false, vile, bigoted dogma.

You're deflecting because you can't argue anything on the merits.

Except recognizing basic scientific facts :-D

Many 13 year olds are still pubescent. None are children. Nature turns children into adults. There is lots of individual variation.
What turns a kitten into an adult cat? Puberty. What turns a puppy into an adult dog? Puberty. What turns a child into an adult human? Puberty. This is not difficult.

Brains don't "finish cooking"... they change continuously throughout our lives (just like our bodies do)

and even if there was some magical point of "finish cooking" that wouldn't make people below that age mentally incompetent.

you are jumping thru tons of illogical hoops in order to justify demeaning and degrading young adults. Stop it.

"finished developing" is a stupid red herring. Our bodies and brains never stop changing. There is literally no point of "finished developing"

Our brains are largest around age 13. We get adult brains along with our adult bodies during puberty. This is a well-known scientific fact.

If anyone is "insulated from the real world" that was a choice society made. Was it the intentional infantilization of young adults? Keeping them locked out of adult society means they stay mentally children. We created this problem. We can remove it.

LOL

That has been completely debunked :-D

The Tanner Scale is the only determinant :-)

I wrote "Teenagers Are Adults" and you respond by moving the goalposts to make a strawman. I never wrote "All of the youngest teenagers are always adults" You made that up so you could knock it down.

The vast majority of teenagers are adults. That's just science. The median age of reaching Tanner 5, adulthood, is 14 now. So most of us are fully adult before our 15th birthdays.

Child beauty contests are completely harmless. Their negative impact is in no way greater than anything competitive sports does to children. People, however, need to do tons of virtue signalling, so they scream about the terrible "sexualization" going on there, when it is in fact just some kids playing dress up, one of the most natural games children play.

That's exactly how all of this works. It is in fact #BasicBiology

You can do all the #ScienceDenial you like. Won't change the facts.