Hey, I gave this a watch but their use of the word 'local' doesn't match mine in this case. When I use the word local, I'm referring to a geographic area, or at least a server that represents a geographic area. It looks like when local-first talk about local, they're referring to interaction on a device. It would be nice to be able to have habitat not require an internet connection to queue a post, this is a great idea and I'll look into that, but their point on "it should still work on device if the remote server is down (or even disappears forever)" I don't believe is possible when we're building a community platform. Or, at least, if such a thing is possible, I wouldn't know where to begin. I appreciate the heads-up though, I love that such a group exists.

I haven't, but I will absolutely look at this on the weekend! Thanks so much

Hey, thanks the feedback.

That would be one of the ways that I'd use the home functionality, but the categorisation would allow for more niche subjects than just generic local conversation, such as treasure hunting games or historical photos etc. Also, the nearby feature would make it more of a utility for travelling and sightseeing.

I think you're right in that uptake would be a challenge, but I personally think that would primarily be due to the paradox of not joining a community because it's empty. It's something that I mention in the article. I don't know if it's something that can be overcome, but I wouldn't mind giving it a go.

Hey, it's good to know that others have been considering this sort of thing.

My article does detail solutions to some of the issues you've raised here, but I'll go over them each just to see where our visions differ:

I can’t share the post with that friend very easily

All posts will have a publicly available URL. I don't think it would be good to create closed communities, only solutions that would show the user local posts.

If you don’t validate, the system will certainly be abused

I don't believe we should validate that people actually live in the community. I think administration of blocking malicious users should work just like Lemmy, but I don't think the potential for abuse is quite as high, given that the reward for a spammer would be to spam to such a small amount of people. There's less work in spamming to a larger group by choosing just about any other type of community.

Do you have to abandon your old account and start over?

You don't, just like Lemmy and Mastodon, your account on one instance could be used to interact with other instances. The Connecting Instances section of the article details how this could work from a technical point.

It doesn’t have to be one party running this entire system. That’s the point of the Fediverse, right

Distributed cost and administration is exactly how I see it. I would only care to host my local instance.

😃 well, tbf I feel that we have plenty of solutions for finding like-minded people. Social platforms for hobbies etc. We're communicating on one right now, but a local platform would be for communicating with people that might not necessarily be like-minded, but would still have the same interest in mind. The interest of how much parking is, or what the opening hours are, or what this weird statue in the woods is all about. The interest is the place and that alone is what would connect people.

😀 that's great to hear! Thanks

I hadn't heard of Yikyak, but it looks very similar to my mock-up. Thanks

Hey! Thanks for the feedback! :D Regarding your point on whether or not it could ever take off, I've given this some thought over the last 24 hours, because I have received a lot of similar feedback. Initially it was one of the biggest things preventing me from wanting to actually attempting building it. I've come to the conclusion that if I can foster a community around it in my local area only, that would be a success for me. The nearby functionality would still work at a local level. If it grew from there, that would be even more of a success. I think with any network that's designed to be fragmented like this, there's always going to be places in which it doesn't take off or not enough people adopt it, but that shouldn't really affect whether or not it's a success at the local scale. So I've decided not to let that factor deter me.

I see your point on just using, let's say, an instance of Lemmy for my local town. This is a fair point, the solution might already be out there, but it uses a toolset that's designed for generic conversation, and not conversation around a location -- like, perhaps a specific location that I want to see or place on a map and talk about it. This is the functionality that I'm personally craving.

Yes, it looks like this is a better comparison than Nextdoor in terms of features.

This is a really interesting point regarding road Vs actual distances, and large areas that are thinly populated being considered local. Australia certainly comes to mind. I suppose the right thing to do about the latter would be to give both users and owners control over search and area sizes.

The quiet feed point is my biggest concern to be honest. It worked out for Lemmy and Mastodon, but it took revolts from their privately owned counterparts to get them to the place they are now.

I'll look into that, thanks. If someone has already done the work that'd be amazing!

Thanks! Worst case scenario is that I'll learn a lot and have fun doing so.

Yes, I discovered this for myself yesterday after getting a lot of suggestions that it won't catch on. I can do my best to foster my own community. If others do the same, that's a bonus!

I detail that the benefit of this idea is that you can do exactly this using the Nearby feed.

Thanks! I'll take all the suggestions I can get! This is interesting, and something I've never really considered for any local project. Is it common for libraries to take an interest in online platforms like this? Which country do you live in by the way? I'm not sure if it's a knowledge gap on my part or just something that libraries in the UK wouldn't get involved with.

I like this! This is an interesting and probably an effective idea for addressing the issue of desolate communities. It does introduce a new issue though. Let's say for the sake of argument, I created an instance where I lived, and it engulfed the British isles, and then after some time, a new instance was created in Scotland. The posts that were previously made in my (now England) instance that are geographically located in Scotland would need to be transferred to the Scottish instance, because otherwise, they would never be found using the relevant instance finding technique that I've described. This doesn't sound like a terrible technical issue (though probably not an entirely trivial one given that you don't want to have all of your posts hijacked by a bad actor), but it does sound like a data/privacy issue, in that the users who posted that data have essentially had it transferred to the ownership (and moderation decisions) of somebody else without permission. An interesting thought none the less. I'd prefer the platform to be as simple as possible but if it can't be picked up due to a lack of interest then that would be a design flaw. On the other hand, I suppose it'll be in the interest of each owner to foster their own community.

It's such a joy to read this kind of feedback, and to know that not only would it be enjoyable to have such a platform, but you can foresee that it would be useful. I think I might ask some developers who have experience with building decentralised platforms to see if they think there would be technical issues.

Yes, what I'm describing is federating with all instances, unless of course, you decide to block one. Using the method I've described, there would be only one hop necessary from your local to the instance relevant to your location. I can't picture the benefit of a solution in which you would only federate with local instances, given that the downside would be that you would be restricted to posting in your own location. Let me know if I'm missing something. I appreciate all of this feedback.

Thanks for this. I like the idea of local libraries being the hub of community connection. If I get a strong impression that people would want this, and if I get the impression that I can do a better job of building such a platform than anyone else willing to do so, I'll be sure to contact my local library. At the moment, I'm still on the fence on both counts, given that I don't believe the idea has yet garnered the attention of anyone who has experience developing for decentralised platforms. I'm hopeful though. It sounds like a fun project, but it would be a shame to get to the end of it without help and nobody actually wants it, or to work away at it and find something I've overlooked will prevent it from happening. I'll keep my ear to the ground for a little while.

Hey, I've been looking into the idea of using population density as an indicator of how big a community should be, but it didn't feel right that the platform would be deciding the boundaries of each community. I then thought about the idea that the owner, upon setup, would draw a shape on a map that would indicate the boundaries of their desired community. How do you feel that solution would that solution work around your river?

The Home functionality could and probably would be used like Nextdoor is used, however categorisation would allow for niche interests that fall outside of general neighbourly discussion. The nearby functionality would result in functionality that I don't believe Nextdoor offers, which is exploration focused.

Additionally, it's decentralised, which I don't believe Nextdoor is.

Thanks Rimu! Steal away! I just watched a video of you demonstrating PieFed. It's good to get some positive feedback from a developer with experience in building a decentralised platform, because as of yet, I don't have that.

I'll almost certainly be using ActivityPub if and when, and I'll keep in mind this address amendment :D

Thanks for this. Perhaps invite only could work. When I signed up to my Lemmy instance, I was asked to say something nice about the UK to prove that I wasn't a bot. I imagine this could work with a local quiz. But I personally favour the idea of it being open and communities being so small that it wouldn't really benefit anyone to abuse. But it would certainly be nice to have the administration tools to quickly put a stop to it if it does occur. Something to think about. Thanks

I think that's the beauty of the fediverse though. Any community can be anything you want it to be. If some users don't like how an instance is being used, they could create a competing instance that's more aimed that their wants and needs.

Hey, you asked to be kept updated, so I thought I'd let you know that I have been working on Habitat: https://carlnewton.github.io/posts/building-habitat/

Thanks for this! 😃 I have been going back and forth on the idea of providing the end user with the ability to create their own categories. I was wondering whether it would be better to have an Other type category which the admin can react to and create categories as needed, but your post has pushed me back to the idea of allowing category creation. I think if I do implement that, I'll have a switch for it, so that the instance admin can choose.

Hey, thanks for this. I think I want the same. I don't think the idea of being able to follow a profile to see what else someone has posted, or to even be able to private message someone on the platform. The focus being only the place of interest.

Ha! Funnily enough I just responded to a different comment along these same lines: that's the beauty of the fediverse. If a community of moaners exist, they could have their own instance. Or in the case of Lemmy (and the very theoretical Habitat), their own categories that other users can tune out from. I think you're going to have places in which moderation is a success and places in which it isn't. Anything that isn't moderated appropriately and gets taken down as a result of something actually illegal won't affect the communities that are appropriately moderated, because it can all be separated. It seems to be working well enough for Lemmy.

fear that every country might have it's own unique problems, but I'll look into postcodes, thanks.

Hey, you're the second person to suggest that it could be achieved with Mastodon. I'll look into it, and if it can be achieved with Mastodon in the way that I'm picturing, I won't be reinventing the wheel, thanks.

Thanks for this. I really appreciate (and enjoyed!) the use cases. What I have in mind is mostly the information sharing use case. I think there's been a lot of focus on such a platform "catching on" and what it means on the global scale, and I did get caught up in that for a brief moment, but I've realised that my interest on the global scale is misplaced. I want something that primarily works for a local community, and I want it to be decentralised in a fashion so that if instances decide to acknowledge each-other's existence, they'll provide the ability to look for physically close posts by pointing to each other when relevant. This might not be how the rest of the Fediverse works, or want's to work, but it seems better and actually simpler in design to me. I think I'm going to go off and try building my own thing. If nothing else, it'll be a learning experience.

Is that a matrix address? I don't know what this is, I'll look into it. Thanks for the feedback. It isn't quite how I envision it but it sounds like a lot of people are in favour of local communities, and it appears we don't have a solution on the fediverse for that yet.

I can't seem to find anything relevant when I search for Topix, but I think we learn to moderate our local communities effectively. Just like here on Lemmy. The difference being that owners will have fewer people to moderate, so it should in theory be easier. If an owner is vile, create a competing instance.

The Hometown functionality isn't what I'm describing. I want something in which the experience is about physical proximity to the subject. I may be bad at explaining this. Thanks for the suggestion though.