South Korea court orders Japan to compensate 'comfort women', reverses earlier ruling

Salamendacious@lemmy.world to News@lemmy.world – 185 points – South Korea court orders Japan to compensate 'comfort women', reverses earlier ruling
reuters.com

SEOUL, Nov 23 (Reuters) - A South Korean appellate court on Thursday ordered Japan to compensate a group of 16 women who were forced to work in Japanese wartime brothels, overturning a lower court ruling that dismissed the case and prompting a stern protest from Tokyo.

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If someone references the last well known leader to ask about a country, that’s a giant red flag that they’re lying about being from the country

And you were wrong. Nice try.

I asked a question. You answered. How is that wrong?

that’s a giant red flag that they’re lying about being from the country

A giant red flag that was wrong. Again, nice try.

Red flags are warnings that you should look into further, which I did. They’re not absolute predictors, but signs to probe. I stand by my question.

You asked someone else in this thread to produce a type of document that has never existed for anything (a government agreement that a word means a certain thing), then when they couldn’t, explained that an argument made without evidence is meaningless. How is due diligence about the claims people make a surprise to you?

You asked someone else in this thread to produce a type of document that has never existed for anything (a government agreement that a word means a certain thing)

I asked for that document because I suspected it does NOT exist. In a series of trying to prove me wrong, you have only continued to make the wrong assumptions about me. Just stop.

In a series of trying to prove me wrong you have only continued to make the wrong assumptions.

I don’t think you’re wrong and haven’t tried to do anything to prove you wrong. I asked a question, then I’ve explained why I asked it several times, because you’re the one misunderstanding. It’s obvious that you knew that document couldn’t exist. I brought it up to show that asking if the base of someone’s claim is true is in fact, normal on the internet.

I don’t think you’re wrong and haven’t tried to do anything to prove you wrong

That doesn't make any sense...

According to you, you merely asked me if I'm actually a Japanese. No intention to disprove my argument. Instead, you wanted to argue, uhm... what?

The only answer I can come up with is the following.

  1. you intended to attack me by proving I was lying about my nationality, for example a country hostile to Japan doing propaganda
  2. then you failed
  3. you have to save your face
  4. so you claimed that you didn't fail with your attack, because you were just asking a question

If you have an alternative explanation, you are welcome to tell me that.

This is petty as hell, but sure.

  1. You said your understanding of the situation in Japan was x, then referred to a deceased prime minister who was well known around the world.

  2. Then you said you were Japanese, which seemed suspicious.

  3. I asked if you were sure about that, because of point 1. (full disclosure: it never occurred to me that you’d be astroturfing on behalf of another country, more that you maybe wanted to win the argument or were trolling. I probably should have thought of that though.)

  4. You said yes, asked if I was a nationalist, and told me to stop gatekeeping the Japanese identity.

  5. I explained why I asked, because that’s not what I was doing.

  6. It got worse?

Tbh, I’m very confused about this interaction too. I’m not Japanese, though, I don’t know how things are there. I just saw someone with a reasonable perspective seeming to lie, so I wanted to look further into it, because I don’t have first hand knowledge of it and it’s hard to research because of the controversy surrounding it. I was just checking sources, I don’t know why this interaction is so hostile.

But yeah, I don’t think you’re wrong. I don’t know enough to be well informed about comfort women specifically, but Japan has not generally dealt with its behavior during WWII in a spectacular way, so it’s not hard to believe that it’s doing the same re: comfort women. I don’t want to just assume bad things about Japan though, so if two people are representing different sides in a discussion about a cultural stance towards something, it’s relevant information if one person is falsely saying that they’re from Japan.

I honestly expected you to just respond in super slangy Japanese, because that would have ended the conversation in a satisfying way for all of us.

Why do you want the source (?) of my nationality rather than that of my arguments?

I mean, by questioning my nationality you basically told me I was lying about my nationality. And, you say that wasn't going to upset me? It makes no sense.

And how am I supposed to prove my nationality? Was I expected to be stupid enough to upload my passport? But even then, how would you verify that's actually my passport?

I don't know how anyone can expect otherwise, but it's only natural for the conversation to go hostile, whatever excuse you make with after the fact.

Yes I'm angry. But anyone'd imagine you write your comment differently if you didn't want to anger me...

I care if someone is suggesting they know more than they do by lying about where they’re from.

I don’t care what your passport says, if you’ve been there long enough to know what’s actually going on. Since your understanding comes from living there, it is the source of your argument.

That’s why I said I expected you to answer in Japanese slang.

But yeah, I do assume people on the internet are lying, I thought that was normal. I don’t eat angry when people doubt my statements online, as long as they’re not spreading disinformation while doing it. I assume we all have a blank slate online.

I’m sorry I phrased my doubt in a way that angered you- that really wasn’t my intention. It seems you doubt me there, but I similarly have no way to prove that.

I think we’re at an impasse on this.

For your convenience, I should have put these from the beginning.

English source:

Government denies that "comfort women" were coerced by the Japanese military.

A scholarly article
explaining how Shinzo Abe's government denied coercion in 2007.

Here's the formal Japanese record from the congress.

I appreciate the work. I know that the government of Japan has not addressed its role in the war well. I just wanted to know if the two people talking about their perspectives as Japanese people (regardless of nationality) were actually speaking from experience or not.

If your perspective is based solely on government action, that’s entirely fair (though not what I expected). I’m American born, but live in Germany and am in the naturalization process here (perhaps why nationality isn’t important to me- people whose families have been living in Germany for four plus decades are frequently not citizens), so I understand shame in your government’s actions, specifically to the degree that the governmental position is more important than the general public opinion (a typical American would probably not have an opinion towards American interaction in the Philippines, for example, so the government position is the only relevant one).

In that case though, I agree that it’s irrelevant that you’re Japanese, as you’re forming your opinion not on your experience with Japanese people, but on official government documents.