The qualification for being a Christian is that you believe in Christ. That is literally it. You can be the worst person ever and be a Christian.
In fact, most Christians believe that everyone is a sinner, so being horrible is basically expected and accepted. You just need to repent eventually.
The qualification for being a Christian is that you believe in Christ. That is literally it.
No, the qualification for being a Christian is that you follow Christ. The Biblical writer James actually addresses this very thing ad absurdum by showing that, if the qualification is only to believe in Jesus, even the demons are Christians. Repentance is the first act of selecting into the group of "Christian."
You can be the worst person ever and be a Christian.
No, you can have been the worst person ever and be a Christian. Repentance begins the journey and remains a constant throughout; as Martin Luther said in the first of his 95 Theses, "When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said, 'Repent,' he willed the entire life of believers to be one of repentance."
In fact, most Christians believe that everyone is a sinner, so being horrible is basically expected and accepted.
I'm so sorry that you've been given such a twisted view of this, though I totally understand why (I've seen this argument being made, particularly about Trump in 2016). Being horrible is explicitly not expected or accepted; Jesus himself causes people who claim faith but do awful things "vipers" and weaves a whip to use on them to prove he's serious. The biblical writer Paul asks rhetorically, "shall I continue sinning so that grace may abound? God forbid!" And theologian after theologian for 2,000 years has said the same. If you're gleefully continuing in being horrible, you're proving that you aren't a Christian; and Christians since the first century have affirmed that definition of the faith.
Finally... someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about around here. It's so refreshing to see someone who is actually familiar with the texts in question and the historicity of these claims.
It's people like you that keep me wading through all this sewage and garbage.
I appreciate your kind words.
No, being horrible is not expected or accepted. The Puritans (read: Evangelicals) like to interpret it that way, and in fact they do that because it absolves them of personal responsibility. "Well, I don't do that one really terrible thing, therefore I can feel secure and not worry about my behavior."
In reality, sin just means error, imperfection. It's an acknowledgement that no human can be perfect the way that God is perfect, no matter what. The correct response to this should be ongoing self-evaluation, humility, and caution against slipping into the many easy faults of humanity. We should all be repenting constantly because obviously we make mistakes all the time, and all we can do is keep trying to be better, do better. This is what you find in classical literature like Thomas Kempis's The Imitation of Christ.
If you see someone (and I know this is common) running around claiming absolute security in their righteousness with God, then you're seeing a person who is quite literally actively sinning.
The knock on effect of this whole situation is that Christians who don't believe they know all and speak for God (another sin: taking the Lord's name in vain) don't get public attention because we don't run around shouting at people about our religious beliefs.
It’s an acknowledgement that no human can be perfect the way that God is perfect, no matter what.
Does the scriptures speak towards why God is perfect, and why we're imperfect?
Specifically, if we're made in God's image, then doesn't that mean God is not perfect either, or that we were purposely made imperfectly?
Does the scriptures speak towards why God is perfect, and why we're imperfect?
This is a close cousin to the problem of pain. Many smarter people than I have debated both around and around for centuries, and come no nearer an answer than when they started. The Bible gives us a how, and a who, but not a why. Honestly I wish there was more, but alas.
A well written response, thank you.
Thank you. I wish I had more, but I won't pretend like I have answers I don't.
but I won’t pretend like I have answers I don’t.
Truth, above all.
And who created this definition that you're referencing? You speak as if it's the authority on what is and isn't Christian.
I'm not debating. Just sharing what I've been taught.
Ah, well, you were taught that by non-christians.
Kempis is a very storied and well-respected theologian from right before the Reformation. He's looked upon fondly by the Anglicans, Methodists, and Jesuits alike. He's about as Christian as they come, and the fruit of his belief is abundant.
Thomas Kempis is very much Christian. There are a variety of Christian authors in this vein. Modern American Evangelicalism doesn't comprise the entirety of religious thinking.
They're Christian according to whom? To them?
No, they're not Christian at all.
Again, I'm not debating. But I do find the irony interesting.
And who created this definition that you're referencing? You speak as if it's the authority on what is and isn't Christian.
I feel like you're missing the irony..
You cannot say who is or isn't Christian any more than I can. Just because you reference those YOU see as an authority didn't make you correct. It simply moves the problem one step to the left. Those people also can't say who is or isn't Christian.
There is no metric by which you can measure who is a Christian. At best you can say that some people don't act as you would expect Christians to act. But that's just your option, and says more about your beliefs than them.
No, they're not Christians at all.
I'm just pointing out that you're not being consistent.
The qualification for being a Christian is that you believe in Christ. That is literally it. You can be the worst person ever and be a Christian.
In fact, most Christians believe that everyone is a sinner, so being horrible is basically expected and accepted. You just need to repent eventually.
No, the qualification for being a Christian is that you follow Christ. The Biblical writer James actually addresses this very thing ad absurdum by showing that, if the qualification is only to believe in Jesus, even the demons are Christians. Repentance is the first act of selecting into the group of "Christian."
No, you can have been the worst person ever and be a Christian. Repentance begins the journey and remains a constant throughout; as Martin Luther said in the first of his 95 Theses, "When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said, 'Repent,' he willed the entire life of believers to be one of repentance."
I'm so sorry that you've been given such a twisted view of this, though I totally understand why (I've seen this argument being made, particularly about Trump in 2016). Being horrible is explicitly not expected or accepted; Jesus himself causes people who claim faith but do awful things "vipers" and weaves a whip to use on them to prove he's serious. The biblical writer Paul asks rhetorically, "shall I continue sinning so that grace may abound? God forbid!" And theologian after theologian for 2,000 years has said the same. If you're gleefully continuing in being horrible, you're proving that you aren't a Christian; and Christians since the first century have affirmed that definition of the faith.
Finally... someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about around here. It's so refreshing to see someone who is actually familiar with the texts in question and the historicity of these claims.
It's people like you that keep me wading through all this sewage and garbage.
I appreciate your kind words.
No, being horrible is not expected or accepted. The Puritans (read: Evangelicals) like to interpret it that way, and in fact they do that because it absolves them of personal responsibility. "Well, I don't do that one really terrible thing, therefore I can feel secure and not worry about my behavior."
In reality, sin just means error, imperfection. It's an acknowledgement that no human can be perfect the way that God is perfect, no matter what. The correct response to this should be ongoing self-evaluation, humility, and caution against slipping into the many easy faults of humanity. We should all be repenting constantly because obviously we make mistakes all the time, and all we can do is keep trying to be better, do better. This is what you find in classical literature like Thomas Kempis's The Imitation of Christ.
If you see someone (and I know this is common) running around claiming absolute security in their righteousness with God, then you're seeing a person who is quite literally actively sinning.
The knock on effect of this whole situation is that Christians who don't believe they know all and speak for God (another sin: taking the Lord's name in vain) don't get public attention because we don't run around shouting at people about our religious beliefs.
Does the scriptures speak towards why God is perfect, and why we're imperfect?
Specifically, if we're made in God's image, then doesn't that mean God is not perfect either, or that we were purposely made imperfectly?
This is a close cousin to the problem of pain. Many smarter people than I have debated both around and around for centuries, and come no nearer an answer than when they started. The Bible gives us a how, and a who, but not a why. Honestly I wish there was more, but alas.
A well written response, thank you.
Thank you. I wish I had more, but I won't pretend like I have answers I don't.
Truth, above all.
And who created this definition that you're referencing? You speak as if it's the authority on what is and isn't Christian.
I'm not debating. Just sharing what I've been taught.
Ah, well, you were taught that by non-christians.
Kempis is a very storied and well-respected theologian from right before the Reformation. He's looked upon fondly by the Anglicans, Methodists, and Jesuits alike. He's about as Christian as they come, and the fruit of his belief is abundant.
Thomas Kempis is very much Christian. There are a variety of Christian authors in this vein. Modern American Evangelicalism doesn't comprise the entirety of religious thinking.
They're Christian according to whom? To them?
No, they're not Christian at all.
Again, I'm not debating. But I do find the irony interesting.
I feel like you're missing the irony..
You cannot say who is or isn't Christian any more than I can. Just because you reference those YOU see as an authority didn't make you correct. It simply moves the problem one step to the left. Those people also can't say who is or isn't Christian.
There is no metric by which you can measure who is a Christian. At best you can say that some people don't act as you would expect Christians to act. But that's just your option, and says more about your beliefs than them.
I'm just pointing out that you're not being consistent.