Someone who doesn’t play any instrument, including singing. There are unending numbers of people who will tell you they’re not musicians because they don’t even try. Anyone who doesn’t try but tells you they’re a musician is a liar. That’s the point.
load of gish gallop
Nothing that I’ve said should have been overwhelming or inundating. My premise is incredibly simple. You just keep misunderstanding it repeatedly because it seems that you’re not even reading what’s being said.
We’re not talking about interpretation from the Bible. We’re talking about the definition used by Catholics that is part of their dogma and doctrine. We’re talking about quoting the (supposed) words of Jesus in places where there is no debate on the meaning. You can try to dismiss and downplay what I’ve said all you want but none of what I’ve said is inaccurate whereas your response is full of inaccuracies and misunderstandings.
Someone who doesn’t play any instrument, including singing.
Lol, so someone who wants to claim to be a musician but can't even sing badly (or rap badly, because rappers are still musicians)? That's who we've excluded? Wow, what a useful definition for musician. 🙄
Who is this person who wants to go around claiming musician creds and then can't attempt a couple of bars?
Your argument just sucks dude, get over yourself.
EDIT: Thanks for the downvote!
Congratulations, you understand my example. That’s my entire point. Someone who does not play or sing cannot possibly be a musician. If you don’t do the thing that defines the word that means “someone who does this thing”, then you can’t be that thing. That’s the argument! If someone claims to be a Christian and doesn’t follow the example of the figurehead of Christianity, then they are not a Christian. If you don’t like the musician example, come up with a better one.
My argument doesn’t suck. You suck.
Someone who does not play or sing cannot possibly be a musician.
But given that bar there's nobody that could claim to be a musician and then not just shit out a couple of bars and be one by your definition. So, again, your definition sucks (EDIT: and it happens to actually prove that what someone else is saying about "claiming to be a Christian makes you a Christian" is essentially true...because I can claim to be a musician and then sing a little happy birthday and I fit your definition).
If someone claims to be a Christian and doesn’t follow the example of the figurehead of Christianity, then they are not a Christian.
Now it's "follow the example". So is that words? Actions? Both? Who determines what is "Christ-like"? You? Are you the guy who determines who is and isn't a Christian?
You suck.
Right back at ya slick.
Are you being intentionally obtuse here or what? The definition isn’t about being capable of singing (even poorly). It’s about whether or not the person does that thing in their life. If you don’t like the music example, choose a different profession. For example, if I claim to be a golfer, I can’t be one if I don’t play golf. I can’t claim to be a golfer and then “shit out golf clubs and whack a ball around”. You’re just being an asshole and arguing semantics over the fact that someone can use their voice. Normal, reasonable people understand that “shit[ting] out a couple bars” doesn’t make one a music anymore than hitting a golf ball at a party makes you a golfer. Stop being disingenuous.
Now it’s “follow the example”
What do you mean here? This implies that my position on this has changed somewhere. I’ve already clarified in my 1st response to you that “belief in Jesus” isn’t enough to make someone Christian. It’s what started your whole fake confusion about being a musician. This kind of nonsense just leads me to believe that you’re not arguing in good faith here (which is already obvious but I try give people the benefit of the doubt).
To answer your question, Christ determines what is “Christ-like”. I would think that was obvious and implied but now you just seem to be pretending to be confused.
You’re just being an asshole and arguing semantics over the fact that someone can use their voice. Normal, reasonable people understand that “shit[ting] out a couple bars” doesn’t make one a music anymore than hitting a golf ball at a party makes you a golfer. Stop being disingenuous.
You've done nothing but argue semantics the entire thread. I've golfed before but I'm not a golfer largely because I don't claim to be nor aspire to be a golfer despite having golfed at one point. People's identity is to a large extent wrapped up in the claims they make about themselves. I understand that there's a common understanding of what a "golfer" or a "barber" or a "Christian" is, but you're the guy trying to invent the new one. I'm trying to follow your "logic" here to get an actual definition of a Christian that excludes this Mike Johnson character (for instance).
If someone says they're a Christian, says they believe in Christ (for whatever that means), and they go around spouting quotes from the Bible, they're a Christian by my logic. They're a Christian by most people's logic. You're trying to define it some other way, so provide your criteria.
To answer your question, Christ determines what is “Christ-like”. I would think that was obvious and implied but now you just seem to be pretending to be confused.
Well Christ isn't around to call balls and strikes, so then by your definition nobody can be a Christian.
This is not about logic! We’re discussing religion, for Pete’s sake.
It’s not my definition, it’s the definition of what it means to be a Christian from the source of the word. It’s literally in the name - Christian. Spouting Bible verses doesn’t make someone a Christian. They could be Jewish, after all! Believing in Jesus doesn’t make someone a Christian - that would mean that Muslims are Christians since they believe Jesus was simply a human prophet (rather than the son of Allah). Just because you’re intellectually lazy and because your logic only extends so far as immediately obvious “if a then b” situations doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with my argument.
The entire point of this thread is that “Christians” aren’t using their own logic and definitions. They can say that “Mike Johnson” isn’t a Christian because they’re perverting the definition of the word to include whatever specific flavor they like. Even if he did fit that specific flavor, they just move the goalposts and then he suddenly becomes “not a Christian” again.
by your definition nobody
Yet again… it’s not my definition. Christ was the one that defined what it means to be Christ-like. If someone’s actions do not reflect the actions of Christ, then they’re not “Christ-like”. I don’t understand how much more this can be spelled out for you.
Spouting Bible verses doesn’t make someone a Christian. They could be Jewish, after all! Believing in Jesus doesn’t make someone a Christian - that would mean that Muslims are Christians since they believe Jesus was simply a human prophet (rather than the son of Allah).
Claiming to be a Christian is a large part of what it takes to be a Christian by common definition. You skipped over that part likely because it's devastating to your bad argument. 🥱
EDIT: I also think it's funny that you think "believing in Jesus" would be as simple as believing that there was a guy that walked the Earth named Jesus that said and did some holy stuff. Believing in Jesus for most people would mean believing in his divinity, not just that oh there was this swell guy that walked around at one point.
Claiming to be a Christian means nothing. I didn’t skip anything. It’s literally the same argument as the “claiming to be a golfer” and “claiming to be a musician” arguments that you can’t wrap your head around.
Claiming to be a Christian is not a part of what it takes to be a Christian anymore than claiming to be Scotsman makes someone not born in Scotland one.
Edit: Your edit is even stupider than the body of your post. Satan is not a Christian yet, by your definition, he would have to believe in Jesus’ divinity and would, therefore, be a Christian. This is how stupid your responses are.
Satan is not a Christian yet, by your definition, he would have to believe in Jesus’ divinity and would, therefore, be a Christian. This is how stupid your responses are.
I like how you keep telling me how stupid I am, but think the common sense definition for "Christian" wouldn't include having to be a person. 😎
I keep telling you how stupid you are because you keep avoiding the actual point and, instead, say stupid things like what you just said as if they’re some sort of gotcha or disprove my point. I literally cannot spell out this argument to you any more simply so, rather than assume you’re intentionally being dishonest or are arguing in bad faith (which I expect is exactly what you’re doing), I have to go with the only logical alternative which is that you are stupid and the point of this is just whizzing above your head while you look at the sky wondering.
I keep telling you how stupid you are because you keep avoiding the actual point and, instead, say stupid things like what you just said as if they’re some sort of gotcha or disprove my point.
He posts, without a single bit of irony.
The common sense definition of "a Christian" would certainly contain "a person" or "people" in it.
…and he doesn’t know what irony is.
There’s no such thing as a “common sense definition”, you absolutely vacuous moron.
So words mean nothing again according to you, now only the actions count. Someone's arguing in circles.
Claiming to be a Christian has a lot to do with whether or not people consider you a Christian by the common understanding of the word.
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must careful what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegut
Claiming to be a…
When did I ever claim that words meant anything in terms of whether someone was something?
It does not. We’ve already covered this. Are you mental? A claim to be something doesn’t make someone that thing. Do I need to keep repeating the “golfer” and “musician” examples? I’m not arguing in circles. You seem to be twisting yourself into knots, though.
Tell me you don’t understand the Vonnegut quote without telling me you don’t understand it…
Edit: Just as nonsensical - “Claiming to be a golfer has a lot to do with whether or not people consider you a golfer by the common understanding of the word”. Oh really? I thought it was whether or not you play golf that determined if you were a golfer.
When did I ever claim that words meant anything in terms of whether someone was something?
I've lost track of the post, but at some point you were saying someone can't be a Jew if they deny the Commandments or something similar. Now, by your logic maybe a "denial" is some sort of action, but denials by common definition usually take the form of words, not actions.
Now, if actions are all that count for someone to be considered "a Christian" or "not Christian", only a complete knowledge of every action a person ever took or will take would suffice for qualifying them or disqualifying them as Christian. So then again, you'd have to basically be God in order to determine which people were Christian. Rendering the definition pointless.
“Claiming to be a golfer has a lot to do with whether or not people consider you a golfer by the common understanding of the word”. Oh really? I thought it was whether or not you play golf that determined if you were a golfer.
How do other people know whether or not you play golf?
You aren’t a thing only when you’re actively doing it.
I’m going to ignore the first half of this post because you completely missed the point of the Ten Commandments example. I suspect you’re just actually that dense and aren’t being intentionally obtuse or feigning confusion.
You aren’t a thing only when you’re actively doing it
Of course not. But you’re definitely not a thing if you don’t do that thing at all.
Someone who doesn’t play any instrument, including singing. There are unending numbers of people who will tell you they’re not musicians because they don’t even try. Anyone who doesn’t try but tells you they’re a musician is a liar. That’s the point.
Nothing that I’ve said should have been overwhelming or inundating. My premise is incredibly simple. You just keep misunderstanding it repeatedly because it seems that you’re not even reading what’s being said.
We’re not talking about interpretation from the Bible. We’re talking about the definition used by Catholics that is part of their dogma and doctrine. We’re talking about quoting the (supposed) words of Jesus in places where there is no debate on the meaning. You can try to dismiss and downplay what I’ve said all you want but none of what I’ve said is inaccurate whereas your response is full of inaccuracies and misunderstandings.
Lol, so someone who wants to claim to be a musician but can't even sing badly (or rap badly, because rappers are still musicians)? That's who we've excluded? Wow, what a useful definition for musician. 🙄
Who is this person who wants to go around claiming musician creds and then can't attempt a couple of bars?
Your argument just sucks dude, get over yourself.
EDIT: Thanks for the downvote!
Congratulations, you understand my example. That’s my entire point. Someone who does not play or sing cannot possibly be a musician. If you don’t do the thing that defines the word that means “someone who does this thing”, then you can’t be that thing. That’s the argument! If someone claims to be a Christian and doesn’t follow the example of the figurehead of Christianity, then they are not a Christian. If you don’t like the musician example, come up with a better one.
My argument doesn’t suck. You suck.
But given that bar there's nobody that could claim to be a musician and then not just shit out a couple of bars and be one by your definition. So, again, your definition sucks (EDIT: and it happens to actually prove that what someone else is saying about "claiming to be a Christian makes you a Christian" is essentially true...because I can claim to be a musician and then sing a little happy birthday and I fit your definition).
Now it's "follow the example". So is that words? Actions? Both? Who determines what is "Christ-like"? You? Are you the guy who determines who is and isn't a Christian?
Right back at ya slick.
Are you being intentionally obtuse here or what? The definition isn’t about being capable of singing (even poorly). It’s about whether or not the person does that thing in their life. If you don’t like the music example, choose a different profession. For example, if I claim to be a golfer, I can’t be one if I don’t play golf. I can’t claim to be a golfer and then “shit out golf clubs and whack a ball around”. You’re just being an asshole and arguing semantics over the fact that someone can use their voice. Normal, reasonable people understand that “shit[ting] out a couple bars” doesn’t make one a music anymore than hitting a golf ball at a party makes you a golfer. Stop being disingenuous.
What do you mean here? This implies that my position on this has changed somewhere. I’ve already clarified in my 1st response to you that “belief in Jesus” isn’t enough to make someone Christian. It’s what started your whole fake confusion about being a musician. This kind of nonsense just leads me to believe that you’re not arguing in good faith here (which is already obvious but I try give people the benefit of the doubt).
To answer your question, Christ determines what is “Christ-like”. I would think that was obvious and implied but now you just seem to be pretending to be confused.
You've done nothing but argue semantics the entire thread. I've golfed before but I'm not a golfer largely because I don't claim to be nor aspire to be a golfer despite having golfed at one point. People's identity is to a large extent wrapped up in the claims they make about themselves. I understand that there's a common understanding of what a "golfer" or a "barber" or a "Christian" is, but you're the guy trying to invent the new one. I'm trying to follow your "logic" here to get an actual definition of a Christian that excludes this Mike Johnson character (for instance).
If someone says they're a Christian, says they believe in Christ (for whatever that means), and they go around spouting quotes from the Bible, they're a Christian by my logic. They're a Christian by most people's logic. You're trying to define it some other way, so provide your criteria.
Well Christ isn't around to call balls and strikes, so then by your definition nobody can be a Christian.
This is not about logic! We’re discussing religion, for Pete’s sake.
It’s not my definition, it’s the definition of what it means to be a Christian from the source of the word. It’s literally in the name - Christian. Spouting Bible verses doesn’t make someone a Christian. They could be Jewish, after all! Believing in Jesus doesn’t make someone a Christian - that would mean that Muslims are Christians since they believe Jesus was simply a human prophet (rather than the son of Allah). Just because you’re intellectually lazy and because your logic only extends so far as immediately obvious “if a then b” situations doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with my argument.
The entire point of this thread is that “Christians” aren’t using their own logic and definitions. They can say that “Mike Johnson” isn’t a Christian because they’re perverting the definition of the word to include whatever specific flavor they like. Even if he did fit that specific flavor, they just move the goalposts and then he suddenly becomes “not a Christian” again.
Yet again… it’s not my definition. Christ was the one that defined what it means to be Christ-like. If someone’s actions do not reflect the actions of Christ, then they’re not “Christ-like”. I don’t understand how much more this can be spelled out for you.
Claiming to be a Christian is a large part of what it takes to be a Christian by common definition. You skipped over that part likely because it's devastating to your bad argument. 🥱
EDIT: I also think it's funny that you think "believing in Jesus" would be as simple as believing that there was a guy that walked the Earth named Jesus that said and did some holy stuff. Believing in Jesus for most people would mean believing in his divinity, not just that oh there was this swell guy that walked around at one point.
Claiming to be a Christian means nothing. I didn’t skip anything. It’s literally the same argument as the “claiming to be a golfer” and “claiming to be a musician” arguments that you can’t wrap your head around.
Claiming to be a Christian is not a part of what it takes to be a Christian anymore than claiming to be Scotsman makes someone not born in Scotland one.
Edit: Your edit is even stupider than the body of your post. Satan is not a Christian yet, by your definition, he would have to believe in Jesus’ divinity and would, therefore, be a Christian. This is how stupid your responses are.
I like how you keep telling me how stupid I am, but think the common sense definition for "Christian" wouldn't include having to be a person. 😎
I keep telling you how stupid you are because you keep avoiding the actual point and, instead, say stupid things like what you just said as if they’re some sort of gotcha or disprove my point. I literally cannot spell out this argument to you any more simply so, rather than assume you’re intentionally being dishonest or are arguing in bad faith (which I expect is exactly what you’re doing), I have to go with the only logical alternative which is that you are stupid and the point of this is just whizzing above your head while you look at the sky wondering.
He posts, without a single bit of irony.
The common sense definition of "a Christian" would certainly contain "a person" or "people" in it.
…and he doesn’t know what irony is.
There’s no such thing as a “common sense definition”, you absolutely vacuous moron.
So words mean nothing again according to you, now only the actions count. Someone's arguing in circles.
Claiming to be a Christian has a lot to do with whether or not people consider you a Christian by the common understanding of the word.
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must careful what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegut
When did I ever claim that words meant anything in terms of whether someone was something?
It does not. We’ve already covered this. Are you mental? A claim to be something doesn’t make someone that thing. Do I need to keep repeating the “golfer” and “musician” examples? I’m not arguing in circles. You seem to be twisting yourself into knots, though.
Tell me you don’t understand the Vonnegut quote without telling me you don’t understand it…
Edit: Just as nonsensical - “Claiming to be a golfer has a lot to do with whether or not people consider you a golfer by the common understanding of the word”. Oh really? I thought it was whether or not you play golf that determined if you were a golfer.
I've lost track of the post, but at some point you were saying someone can't be a Jew if they deny the Commandments or something similar. Now, by your logic maybe a "denial" is some sort of action, but denials by common definition usually take the form of words, not actions.
Now, if actions are all that count for someone to be considered "a Christian" or "not Christian", only a complete knowledge of every action a person ever took or will take would suffice for qualifying them or disqualifying them as Christian. So then again, you'd have to basically be God in order to determine which people were Christian. Rendering the definition pointless.
How do other people know whether or not you play golf?
You aren’t a thing only when you’re actively doing it.
I’m going to ignore the first half of this post because you completely missed the point of the Ten Commandments example. I suspect you’re just actually that dense and aren’t being intentionally obtuse or feigning confusion.
Of course not. But you’re definitely not a thing if you don’t do that thing at all.