Do any of you program on non-US keyboard layouts?

Programming@programming.dev – 130 points – 5 months ago

I've used a US-QWERTY keyboard layout my entire life. I've seen other layouts that do things like reduce the size of the enter/backspace keys, move the pipe operator (|) and can't wrap my head around how I would code on those.

What are your experiences? Are there any layouts that you prefer for coding over US English? Are there any symbols that you have a hard time reaching ($ for example)?

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You're on /c/programming.

Could just as well have been a writing prompt community. It's just writing ANSI characters for the most part.

Also, it's even ISO standardized, so yeah, it's an international norm.

I'd wish something being ISO meant it's the norm, but that's just not the case. #ISO8601Gang

Pragmatically: most programming languages are developed in a way to that it's easy to type them up on a standard us layout. As English only has 26 letters, which is less than any other language using the latin alphabet (don't even start me on languages with accents like ñ or that differentiate between à, a, á, and â), all the special characters are usually easily accessible. Most others layouts will tuck them away behind non-trivial combinations in favor of improving accessibility of extra letters and special characters. Cuz essentially in human language you barely need * and [. So, I guess, right ctrl + left shift + 9 will do? how do you feel about coding in python on that. Or on a keyboard where the space for your | has been allocated to some letter ø and your OR operator has been moved to the numpad.

As a user of a keyboard layout with æ, ø, å, who also uses python daily, I can promise you that there are zero issues with it.

Most people will grow up with a keyboard layout designed for their native language's need. If it uses Latin characters, there should be minimal issues using it for programming too.

I just explained what the issues are. Programming languages heavily rely on special symbols.

If you haven't watched yourself from the outside, how do you know "there are zero issues with it"? You might be constantly breaking the typing flow and need to use a two-hand combo for some mundane []. While someone on a US layout never needs to lift their hands of the keys, because all they need is a ctrl with a pinky + right hand within reach.

When I learn a new language, I also learn a keyboard layout for it. Or do you also write in Spanish on your keyboard? How do you make an à and an á?

Ah, that's right, you speak two languages, you're stuck using your comfort zone layout, and you'd ofc argue "zero issues".

If you haven't watched yourself from the outside, how do you know "there are zero issues with it"? You might be constantly breaking the typing flow and need to use a two-hand combo for some mundane [].

Because I don't have the issue you're projecting. And if someone do have that issue, what type of programmer (assuming no physical disabilities) has their productivity limited by their typing speed? No one would be my guess.

While someone on a US layout never needs to lift their hands of the keys, because all they need is a ctrl with a pinky + right hand within reach.

Cool, same here , just that sometimes we press alt gr instead of ctrl.

When I learn a new language, I also learn a keyboard layout for it. Or do you also write in Spanish on your keyboard? How do you make an à and an á?

ctrl + \ and then a for à and alt gr + \ then a for á. It's really not much of a hurdle. And definitely faster than trying to learn a new keyboard layout that I can't type on without looking.

Ah, that's right, you speak two languages, you're stuck using your comfort zone layout, and you'd ofc argue "zero issues".

Are we talking actual languages or programming languages? Either case, you assumption is wrong. I don't understand where all your antagonistic energy is coming from. It's just a keyboard layout, there isn't a single correct one. Just use what you're used to and that you can write with a good flow, which for most people will be the layout they grew up with and can type in the blind with.