The outcome of the election is going to be Trump or Biden. NOBODY ELSE IS GOING TO WIN.
So given that you have to choose the person less likely to escalate the situation, the saner one of the two.
I’m not saying it’s good I think it’s fucking abhorrent, but there is no choice.
To be abundantly clear about my stance on Palestine. I am out every weekend protesting in solidarity with Palestine. I am spreading awareness of the issue wherever I can and I am taking direct action against the companies that support the genocide.
Let me ask you this. What do you think is going to happen if you don’t vote?
If a genocide is going to occur regardless of the vote, then the vote doesn’t matter.
Let me ask you this. What do you think is going to happen if you don’t vote?
In regards to what? The genocide? Project 2025? Healthcare?
If people want to vote for Joe Biden to preserve LGBT and minority rights, that’s their choice. If someone wants to not vote for Biden because he is aiding in a genocide, that’s their choice.
It’s egotistical to think that my priorities are more important than others.
If a genocide is going to occur regardless of the vote, then the vote doesn’t matter.
Do you think that more people in Palestine will suffer if trump is elected?
Hypothetically, I think there would be no difference than what is occurring now. The rhetoric from his administration would be more belligerent though. If you take the genocide out of the equation, Biden is clearly the better choice. Unfortunately, it is part of the equation.
Ah, see that's the assumption where you differ from most other folks in this thread.
His commitment to Israel is in stark contrast to how he's treated other longtime American allies.
Lastly, let's not forget his infamous Muslim travel ban.
Trump and the other Republicans will say a lot, but they aren’t going to act any different than what Biden and Blinken are already doing with Palestine. The only difference is the symbolic language the Democrats use to assuage their voters. What are they going to do, send more arms and money faster?
Trump and the other Republicans will say a lot, but they aren’t going to act any different than what Biden and Blinken are already doing with Palestine
Muslim travel ban, Golan heights, and Jerusalem recognition + US embassy adoption there suggests that there are real world acts that the administration would do differently to me, what do you think?
What are they going to do, send more arms and money faster?
Precisely, afaik he doesn't give a shit about the people of Palestine, he's more worried about Israels bad PR and wants them to end it fast.
EDIT: just to check, did you read the JNS article? It's pretty bad, and he spells out exactly what he wants to do... A small excerpt is below.
“On day one, we’ll restore our travel ban. We had a travel ban because we didn’t want people coming into our country who really loved the idea of blowing our country up,” he said. He called the ban an “amazing success.”
“We didn’t have one incident in four years, because we kept bad people out of our country,” he claimed.
“I’ll also be implementing strong ideological screenings for all immigrants coming in,” he
said. “If you hate America, if you want to abolish Israel, if you sympathize with jihadists, then we don’t want you in our country and you’re not going to be getting into our country.”
Trump also said he would cancel student visas of Hamas sympathizers.
“The college campuses are being taken over, and all of the resident aliens who joined in the pro-jihadist protests this month, nobody’s seen anything like it,” he said. “Come 2025, we will find you, and we will deport you.”
...
As president, Trump would “put every single university and college president on notice,” he said. “The American taxpayer will not subsidize the creation of terrorist sympathizers on American soil.”
That last bit is actual government thought policing.
bill clinton signed the recognition of jerusalem and the embassy move. all trump did was stop delaying it.
The, “Biden is bad, but Trump will be worse,” argument is tired. It’s not working, and may be actively making voters dislike Biden more.
It's definitely not working, but all evidence I've seen suggests it's right.
Do you agree with me that "Biden is bad, but trump will be worse" is a correct statement?
I think the tiredness you're referring to is a result of people voting emotionally and not logically, or just being exhausted with this whole shitstorm.
You seem to have honorable intentions, but these exchanges are argumentum ad nauseam.
If you have to tell people why they should vote against Trump, instead of why they should vote for Biden, then he’s already lost.
I'm starting to suspect that the arguments seem as nauseam because I'm trying to reason people out of a decision they didn't reason themselves into - i.e. they're voting emotionally, and not logically. Inconvenient questions get ignored, and we're left with very surface level arguments.
I particularly saw some users comments reflected in this excerpt in the retrospective voting article you shared:
In his classic book “The Responsible Electorate,” the late Harvard University political scientist V.O. Key Jr. suggests that judging a president’s or his party’s performance in office presents a perfect opportunity for the voter to play “rational God of vengeance or reward.”
Perhaps they're voting this way to try and recapture efficacy in a world where they feel they have very little.
You seem genuinely interested in this topic. One I spent a considerable time researching last year and left me disillusioned. A study that may help is from professors Adam Dyne and John Holbein: Noisy Retrospection: The Effect of Party Control on Policy Outcomes. It’s quite a read but demonstrates:
Our results suggest that voters may struggle to truly hold government coalitions accountable, as objective performance metrics appear to be largely out of the immediate control of political coalitions.
Simply put, in large elections with millions of people, our votes count very little.
We should still vote. It matters for local elections, but when it gets to the state level and higher, the impact of our votes have little to no effect.
Dude people ain’t voting for Biden for any reason. They’re voting against the lunatic that tried to incite an insurrection. The dude that has the mentality of a child.
That’s it. Trump is a sociopath and people don’t want him in charge of nuclear weapons.
As to the rest of your comment. Yes you can do what you want but alls people are saying is Trump would far worse in every regard and not voting against him is basically saying your cool with that.
Does that make sense? I don’t mean that in a condescending way, I’m really wanting to know if you understand my point of view and the consensus of this thread. And the majority of people.
If you’re not voting Biden who are you voting for?
If you want to me to say that I’m voting for Biden, I will. The question everyone should be asking themselves is why do they need that validation. Is it only okay to vote for Biden if everyone else does? If I change my mind in the next six months, and decide to vote for Cornel West or Jill Stein, is it not my choice? The people that have decided to not vote for Biden because of the genocide aren’t gonna be persuaded by randos pressuring them on the internet. It’s not their fault he is helping Israel do a genocide.
I literally said in my last comment it is your choice do what you want.
I’ve also covered, ad-nauseam, that the only person getting elected is a genocide supporting one and one of those is less dangerous than the other.
How many times do you want to ask the same questions to get the same answer.
I DONT SUPPORT GENOCIDE.
I DO SUPPORT PALESTINE.
ISRAEL IS AN APARTHEID STATE.
WE THE PEOPLE ARE POWERLESS TO STOP IT.
BIDEN OR TRUMP WILL WIN.
BIDEN IS LESS FUCKING INSANE THAN TRUMP.
BIDEN IS A GENOCIDE SUPPORTER.
Did you even read anything I wrote.
The outcome of the election is going to be Trump or Biden. NOBODY ELSE IS GOING TO WIN.
So given that you have to choose the person less likely to escalate the situation, the saner one of the two.
I’m not saying it’s good I think it’s fucking abhorrent, but there is no choice.
To be abundantly clear about my stance on Palestine. I am out every weekend protesting in solidarity with Palestine. I am spreading awareness of the issue wherever I can and I am taking direct action against the companies that support the genocide.
Let me ask you this. What do you think is going to happen if you don’t vote?
If a genocide is going to occur regardless of the vote, then the vote doesn’t matter.
In regards to what? The genocide? Project 2025? Healthcare?
If people want to vote for Joe Biden to preserve LGBT and minority rights, that’s their choice. If someone wants to not vote for Biden because he is aiding in a genocide, that’s their choice.
It’s egotistical to think that my priorities are more important than others.
Do you think that more people in Palestine will suffer if trump is elected?
Hypothetically, I think there would be no difference than what is occurring now. The rhetoric from his administration would be more belligerent though. If you take the genocide out of the equation, Biden is clearly the better choice. Unfortunately, it is part of the equation.
Ah, see that's the assumption where you differ from most other folks in this thread.
The base assumption made by others, backed by trump encouraging a fast victory for Israel , as well as other GOP politicians with similar calls are signs that trump would press on the accelerator hard.
His commitment to Israel is in stark contrast to how he's treated other longtime American allies.
Lastly, let's not forget his infamous Muslim travel ban.
Trump and the other Republicans will say a lot, but they aren’t going to act any different than what Biden and Blinken are already doing with Palestine. The only difference is the symbolic language the Democrats use to assuage their voters. What are they going to do, send more arms and money faster?
Muslim travel ban, Golan heights, and Jerusalem recognition + US embassy adoption there suggests that there are real world acts that the administration would do differently to me, what do you think?
Precisely, afaik he doesn't give a shit about the people of Palestine, he's more worried about Israels bad PR and wants them to end it fast.
EDIT: just to check, did you read the JNS article? It's pretty bad, and he spells out exactly what he wants to do... A small excerpt is below.
That last bit is actual government thought policing.
bill clinton signed the recognition of jerusalem and the embassy move. all trump did was stop delaying it.
The, “Biden is bad, but Trump will be worse,” argument is tired. It’s not working, and may be actively making voters dislike Biden more.
It's definitely not working, but all evidence I've seen suggests it's right.
Do you agree with me that "Biden is bad, but trump will be worse" is a correct statement?
I think the tiredness you're referring to is a result of people voting emotionally and not logically, or just being exhausted with this whole shitstorm.
You seem to have honorable intentions, but these exchanges are argumentum ad nauseam.
If you have to tell people why they should vote against Trump, instead of why they should vote for Biden, then he’s already lost.
I'm starting to suspect that the arguments seem as nauseam because I'm trying to reason people out of a decision they didn't reason themselves into - i.e. they're voting emotionally, and not logically. Inconvenient questions get ignored, and we're left with very surface level arguments.
I particularly saw some users comments reflected in this excerpt in the retrospective voting article you shared:
Perhaps they're voting this way to try and recapture efficacy in a world where they feel they have very little.
You seem genuinely interested in this topic. One I spent a considerable time researching last year and left me disillusioned. A study that may help is from professors Adam Dyne and John Holbein: Noisy Retrospection: The Effect of Party Control on Policy Outcomes. It’s quite a read but demonstrates:
Simply put, in large elections with millions of people, our votes count very little.
# An Expert Explains Why Your Vote Won't Matter
His study: The Brennan–Lomasky Test of Expressive Voting: When Impressive Probability Differences Are Meaningless
We should still vote. It matters for local elections, but when it gets to the state level and higher, the impact of our votes have little to no effect.
Dude people ain’t voting for Biden for any reason. They’re voting against the lunatic that tried to incite an insurrection. The dude that has the mentality of a child.
That’s it. Trump is a sociopath and people don’t want him in charge of nuclear weapons.
As to the rest of your comment. Yes you can do what you want but alls people are saying is Trump would far worse in every regard and not voting against him is basically saying your cool with that.
Does that make sense? I don’t mean that in a condescending way, I’m really wanting to know if you understand my point of view and the consensus of this thread. And the majority of people.
If you’re not voting Biden who are you voting for?
If you want to me to say that I’m voting for Biden, I will. The question everyone should be asking themselves is why do they need that validation. Is it only okay to vote for Biden if everyone else does? If I change my mind in the next six months, and decide to vote for Cornel West or Jill Stein, is it not my choice? The people that have decided to not vote for Biden because of the genocide aren’t gonna be persuaded by randos pressuring them on the internet. It’s not their fault he is helping Israel do a genocide.
I literally said in my last comment it is your choice do what you want.
I’ve also covered, ad-nauseam, that the only person getting elected is a genocide supporting one and one of those is less dangerous than the other.
How many times do you want to ask the same questions to get the same answer.
I DONT SUPPORT GENOCIDE. I DO SUPPORT PALESTINE. ISRAEL IS AN APARTHEID STATE. WE THE PEOPLE ARE POWERLESS TO STOP IT. BIDEN OR TRUMP WILL WIN. BIDEN IS LESS FUCKING INSANE THAN TRUMP. BIDEN IS A GENOCIDE SUPPORTER.
What more do you want me to say.
I guess what hasn’t been said is you could get