The entire Eastern European bloc has been in a nosedive since the 90s. Its like trying to pick sides during WW1, when everything is corrupt and everyone in authority sucks and yet the only real crime is saying people aren't killing each other fast enough.
If Eugene Debbs were alive today, he'd still be in prison.
There is no such thing as an "Eastern European bloc". There is only "Russia" and "countries running away from Russia".
???
Are you a Warsaw Pact denialist?
I deny that the Warsaw Pact exists right now, if that's what you mean. You might as well argue that the Roman Empire is in decline right now.
I also deny that the Warsaw Pact benefited its member countries. After all, it was the only defensive alliance that invaded its own members.
The entire Eastern European bloc has been in a nosedive since the 90s.
... have you spoken to any Eastern Europeans from the former Warsaw Pact? Like, personally?
Yeah. A number of migrants to the US fleeing the downturn.
I've spoken to a few, and their opinion has been, to a man, overwhelmingly negative towards the old Soviet-supported societies. Economic and health data supports their opinion that the Warsaw Pact era was significantly worse for their countries than the modern day.
to a man, overwhelmingly negative towards the old Soviet-supported societies
Then you're talking to a rarefied group of people. Possibly just the circle you run in.
I'm friends with a couple of engineers and other techies out of Poland and Belarus. They were educated out there and started their careers in the mid-90s, when the economy went into freefall. They did not consider what became of those countries an improvement, and that's before guys like Duda and Lukashenko took office.
Admittedly, I also know a Russian guy who is absolutely ride-or-die for Putin. Loves him. Thinks he saved Russia from collapse. But he's also a big Trump guy who thinks Joe Biden is a communist, so...
PugJesus@kbin.social to 
The entire Eastern European bloc has been in a nosedive since the 90s. Its like trying to pick sides during WW1, when everything is corrupt and everyone in authority sucks and yet the only real crime is saying people aren't killing each other fast enough.
If Eugene Debbs were alive today, he'd still be in prison.
There is no such thing as an "Eastern European bloc". There is only "Russia" and "countries running away from Russia".
???
Are you a Warsaw Pact denialist?
I deny that the Warsaw Pact exists right now, if that's what you mean. You might as well argue that the Roman Empire is in decline right now.
I also deny that the Warsaw Pact benefited its member countries. After all, it was the only defensive alliance that invaded its own members.
... have you spoken to any Eastern Europeans from the former Warsaw Pact? Like, personally?
Yeah. A number of migrants to the US fleeing the downturn.
I've spoken to a few, and their opinion has been, to a man, overwhelmingly negative towards the old Soviet-supported societies. Economic and health data supports their opinion that the Warsaw Pact era was significantly worse for their countries than the modern day.
Then you're talking to a rarefied group of people. Possibly just the circle you run in.
I'm friends with a couple of engineers and other techies out of Poland and Belarus. They were educated out there and started their careers in the mid-90s, when the economy went into freefall. They did not consider what became of those countries an improvement, and that's before guys like Duda and Lukashenko took office.
Admittedly, I also know a Russian guy who is absolutely ride-or-die for Putin. Loves him. Thinks he saved Russia from collapse. But he's also a big Trump guy who thinks Joe Biden is a communist, so...
'Rarefied'
You sure about that?
This doesn't seem to square with the Orban, Duda, and Iohannis regimes, as they are all fiercely anti-democratic.
Hell, it doesn't square with the current Italian government or with the rising tide of German fascists.
Ah, so you're just ignoring the evidence. Wish I could say I was surprised. We're done here.
I'm presenting ample countervailing evidence.