HANN

For a bit of context. Inviting Trump was decided on by the party leaders and was not a popular choice with most of the delegates who were worried it would send a confusing signals to people not familiar with the party. Trump was also able to sneak a lot of his MAGA supporters into the convention for the speech. They tried to sit up front to make it look like Trump was popular there but they were forced to sit in the back. So any claims about cheering should be take with some salt.

It seems like you have an interesting definition of liberty. Liberty (to me) is freedom from authority. Libertarians core value is not having government force individuals to do anything. If people want to opt into a universal healthcare private system they are free to do so (kind of like insurance). A big motivation for this is lack of trust in government to handle the job well. Libertarians see government as inherently prone to corruption and thus want to limit their power as much as possible. The extent to which a given libertarian wants to limit government varies. By appointing government authorities to the system the cost of everything rises as in addition to health care you also have to pay the government workers who oversee the system and it's not very efficient. Not to mention politicians get to decide how much money goes to these programs etc etc. do you really want politicians involved in your health? With all the inefficiency and corruption in politics why do you trust them to handle your health?

There is no need to be condescending or rude. I'm trying to share my ideas and have a healthy discussion so maybe we can learn from each other.

Whatever happens will happen. We don't have control over the outcome only our efforts. Do what you can now to fight for what you believe. Stressing over polls doesn't help.

Even if you had a super intelligent species that can make Dyson spheres and travel at the speed of light the observable universe is beyond vast. I don't know much about cosmology or our ability to detect light but given humans have only been looking into the sky for a couple centuries, not being able to see a thimble in the ocean seems like a non issue. I think if you scale the observable universe down to the size of earth the speed of light becomes 0.05 mph.

There is no need for personal attacks. If you are implying I subscribe to conspiracy theories then you are not correct.

3d printing, soap making, mantis keeping and board games when I can find people to play with.

I think part of the problem is the blurred lines between routine healthcare and emergencies. You are right, if you are having a heart attack insurance should step in to help you front the unexpected large cost. But for expected care like dentist visits you can and absolutely should shop around.

I like your point about insurance getting to decide but I think it's important to note you can still get treated even if insurance doesn't pay. Or you can sue them if you feel they should pay. You make some good points though.

Sure, about the candidates and their stances. All the candidates manipulate the polls to make it look like their ahead and they are just used to pressure people to vote for one of the major parties. Vote for who you want in office. And if you are inclined then try to sway others. But this bandwagon appeal isn't the way.

I think people have a lot of good responses especially about outrage fatigue. Also as many pointed out, people do care, hence the protests especially about Gaza. But even if everybody agrees that the atrocities are terrible people disagree on the solution. Historically the United States has been very involved in foreign affairs and trying to be some sort of glorified superman that went around beating up corrupt governments and improving lives in oppressed countries but it went terribly. It turned out that the US occupying these nations and fighting them just upset the locals even more and led to extremists and even more bloody fighting. Now days I think a lot of people want to help but prefer the government stay out of it. I think what is happening in Ukraine and Gaza is terrible but I don't want the US involved. Us sending soldiers and weapons doesn't help. Instead, I give to charity, and do the little bit I can to help struggling people.

Libertarians are just like other political parties. There are different groups that subscribe the the term libertarian each with slightly different beliefs. Whatever extremists people are out there in the Internet do not represent the whole. I really suggest watching some of the 2024 libertarian debates. They are educated smart people who are informed about the complex issues like those you mentioned. This whole thread has been really eye opening for me. I had no idea people had these conceptions about libertarians. I am guessing there are a bunch of far right groups that like to identify as anarchists and throw around the term libertarian while they do. But if you listen to the rhetoric of the political party and the representatives you will see that those ideas are not held by the party as a whole.

To answer your question, libertarians are, in general, pro personal liberties and pro economic liberties. They believe the individual should get to choose. A common line they use is government should not exert force one way or the other. This means they tend to agree with Democrats on issues like race, drugs, LGBTQ etc. The people who actually get a stage in the political party are absolutely against racism, sexism etc. There was a debate recently where the candidates (about 7 primary) were Asked their stance on abortion. Most of them said they were personally pro life BUT they would still veto any bill or cut funding to any program that forced that perspective on others. Any person who goes around saying they think this and they want the government to force and regulate that disagrees fundamentally with the libertarian perspective. I said most, because one of the candidates was unapologetically pro choice. Please don't think that whatever alt right edge lords are out there actually have any idea what libertarianism is.

Well said, I probably wasn't very clear, but I am not an anarchist. There are certain critical functions that the government must control. When I say freedom from authority I refer to specific government agencies that can exert force on individuals. Government roads don't force users to do anything but rather empower citizens.

Right, government should provide oversight to public goods that, by their nature, require monopolies such as roads or utilities. Government also needs to have a judicial branch that mediates conflicts between individuals and entities.

There is no need to be rude. OP asked for libertarian views.

It's a about competition. I'm not saying business owners aren't corrupt. But if one company, say nestle, turns out to be rotten then you can buy your chocolate chips from another company. But with government I don't have a say. If I don't pay taxes I go to jail and if I don't like how my taxes are spent then too bad. There is no alternative.

I really recommend people who are actually curious about libertarians to watch the 2024 free and equal debate on YouTube (link below). A lot of people here have some strong words against libertarians but don't really understand what they stand for. I think that is a dangerous mindset. I imagine a lot of feminists, BLM or LGBTQ folk understand how frustrating that can be.

I would take anybody in the free and equal debate over the two choices presented by the democratic and Republican party. I personally feel the libertarian candidates resonate with me but make your own decision. Vote for who you feel will represent your views best.

https://www.youtube.com/live/Bmidtp1_K-Y?si=A62jmReZvv8zt1n6

If there is freedom from a governing authority then there is no one to take away my freedom to do what I like. Sounds like two ways of saying the same thing. Maybe I miss your point.

Chase is anti-war on all fronts.

Chase Oliver is the libertarian nomination and one of his common quotes is that he is "anti-war to the core". Anybody with sympathy towards Gaza should absolutely be considering voting for Chase in November.

Kinda thought lemmy was the better reddit. Seems it's just a different reddit.

I'm not sure what you are implying. An individual can pay for insurance or not. They are free to choose. Or they can pay for the entire cost upfront when problems arise.

And that's the right of the individual who owns and started the company. Part of the problem is people don't seek alternatives and just buy what is convenient. People value the big brand names. If we want competition then look for alternatives. Look around at the brands you use and figure for yourself if you are buying big brands or supporting competition and smaller brands. Focus on your contribution. We can't and shouldn't control others. Worrying about what you support is enough on its own.

Check out libertarian nomination Chase Oliver. He is very strong on anti-war. Don't vote for evil to avoid evil. Vote for someone who represents your views.

You happy with how that's been going so far? Do you honestly feel represented by trump/biden? We are presented two rotten options and told we get a say in politics. That's just one more option than dictatorships. If I don't want us tax dollars gifting missiles to Israel I have no option in either party. That's not a say in government. I don't get to tell the president to spend my portion of the taxes. I would rather keep those taxes and voluntarily give to homeless shelters and other charitable groups which do a much better job helping people then the government ever will.

I really like your answer but to me this is what motivated me towards libertarianism. We have been voting between two parties that both are authoritarian in different ways and the result stinks. Let's try the other half of the compass for a change. If government sucks then don't vote for more government to fix the corrupt system. Vote to limit government and give power back to the people.

Profit margins are to keep a company out of debt and ensure it can grow as technology advances. Government would still need to pay employees and keep up with tech. But your right, government does need to avoid debt because it can just print money but that leads to inflation. There is no way to make cost just disappear.

Libertarian care about maximizing social and economic liberties. Liberty being defined as freedom from authority. Taxes are forced on citizens so libertarians generally want to limit taxes to a minimum. I see no reason to believe that universal healthcare would be cheaper than insurance. The government is an inefficient monopoly where private insurance companies have to compete for the lowest rates.

They don't want to pay taxes because they don't like how government uses taxes and don't trust the government to do a good job. Plus, it's an additional layer of bureaucracy at the top which costs more money and is less efficient.

Libertarians want freedom from government force. They want to be able to fund healthcare by choice. They want the freedom to not have taxes being used to send weapons oversees. Libertarians are for social and economic freedom.

Then don't shop at those companies? Go buy produce at your local farmers market etc etc. You get to choose what you spend money on. Or you can start your own business if you feel there is a market gap. You cant start your own government.

But corporations hold each other accountable. They have to compete for your trust. If corporation A does something shady then it's im their competitors interest to call them out in order to raise people's trust in themselves. There are also countless charities and third party sites to grade them. I can choose which programs I fund. I don't get any say in what government gets my taxes or what the government does with my taxes. What if I don't want to fund war but want my money to go to charity to help the poor? How effective is universal healthcare where you are?

That graph is relating cost of healthcare to quality. Not necessarily comparing cost of countries with universal healthcare to America. Additonally, most of the healthcare spending in America is already by the government and look how that's going. America is also significantly larger than any of those countries listed. Overseeing healthcare for a country so large requires way more overhead.