Streisand effect for sure. There seems to be run of these types of posts in the fediverse lately. People don’t seem to realize that sometimes they’re better off letting these situations take their natural course (and die), and not intervene unless it grows beyond manageability.

I think Google peaked about 6-8 years ago now and then started slipping at an ever accelerating rate.

It’s almost useless for me when searching anything remotely technical or otherwise niche.

I almost consistently need to go to the second page of results now, something I don’t remember doing since like 2009.

I find Bing acceptable. Brave search works well. But I’m actually using Kagi now since I’m hoping their paid model will actually mean I’m not the product.

I think it’s a fair point. They won’t be able to remain federated to many instances if their point of contention is open-enrollment.

I understand needing the Lemmy moderation tools to improve and that it’s temporary, but the damage to their own communities and users may not be temporary.

Their users will turn inward and end up preferring their own communities—which is fine. However it also means that non-beehaw users will shy away from those communities in favour of others, lest their home site get de-federated at some point for the same reasons. These effects combined means slow-to-grow, low-visibility communities in the fediverse, and increases the chance that their communities may dwindle if others of the same subject become pre-eminent outside of Beehaw.

In short, while I understand their reasons, I think that it risks making Beehaw.org permanently insular and ultimately much more similar to a non-fediverse website.

I think if you read the article you’ll find he’s actually an expert in this, on multiple levels. I had no idea previously.

This is really no different than Reddit. There have always been multiple subreddits for the same topic, with slightly different names. Many were created because the “originals” were found lacking at some point.

There’s nothing wrong with people having multiple options. We may eventually end up in a situation like Reddit where certain magazines/communities of the same topic are more trafficked than others and the less trafficked ones “die”.

I think there’s going to be a kind of lifecycle thing that comes with these things. They’ll sort of naturally sort themselves out. To artificially guide it one way or the other would be to imitate the mistakes of Reddit or past aggregate sites.

In what way is it a huge deal? In what way was it loud? (Until now)

This person had a handful of heavily downvoted posts and interactions so they never made it to the “hot” or “active” pages.

(Are we talking about the same person?)

If you take a poll of everyone in this thread I would bet almost everyone hadn’t seen these posts or heard of the username.

But now they have, with the help of this post.

I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but it will become impossible to accomplish, practically speaking, as the fediverse grows. There’s only so much that can be done with volunteers, and it’s not like armies of paid staffers work much better (as we’ve seen the major tech corps try to do).

There is a sociological aspect to this, numerous studies have confirmed the effects of highlighting bad actors. There’s a copycat effect (as studies on mass shootings show) as well as what we call the Streisand effect. Both inadvertently encourage others to perpetuate the behaviour rather than serving to limit it.

I understand your idea, but I think it would defeat the purpose of the fediverse. It would create single points of failure that are un-correctable.

I also think many people forget that Reddit never functioned any differently. Everyone seems to have forgotten (and I’m not saying you have!) that there are and were always multiple subreddits for any given topic. With slightly differing names. The only reason people are forgetting this is because eventually one or a handful became pre-eminent and the others died or became transformed into something more niche.

I think it’s a problem that will ultimately correct itself, but I think a tags based system, like hashtags in Mastodon, would be a better solution for tying communities/magazines together through metadata.

This is good news! And we/they should keep pushing for more, everywhere. Good for IBEW for continuing the pressure.

They do have their own crawler and I believe supplement from bing only when necessary. Something like 98% of results are from their own index across all users. They actually have a breakdown for every search.

I think they actually have the largest independent index outside of Google/Bing right now.

Others that exclusively use their own index are:

Mojeek (results aren’t great)
Kagi (result are pretty good imo)

Kbin has only existed publicly for a little over two months.

Lemmy has been around for four years.

It’s rather significant imo that Kbin is on par functionally with Lemmy, and Kbin.social has higher active user counts then all but a few Lemmy instances. Kbin seems to solve issues faster as well in the several weeks I’ve been here anyway.

True, agreed. I’m only commenting on the idea that these people or groups shouldn’t get free advertising when people find them. These posts that are blasting their way to the top of “hot” just like a trending news article are counter-productive. On the Internet, which is fundamentally always at least partially an uncontrolled environment, it’s better take actions for these things that are as invisible as possible.

I’m actually hoping that at some point we may have an automatic translation for content not in our chosen language. The way Mastodon does. I want to understand what the threads and comments in other languages are saying! I feel like it broadens understanding.

+1!

Newer uses of the fediverse also don’t realise yet that Lemmy is older then Kbin, years older. Kbin has only really publically existed for a couple months.

I was here before any surge when there were about 200 users and Ernest followed everyone MySpace Tom style. It’s damn impressive how the site held up even when he had to introduce cloudflare protection temporarily. It was slow, but never crashed completely.

Some Lemmy instances did go down for a bit, even the bigger ones that didn’t had more synchronising issues then Kbin. I’m not trying to knock Lemmy by any means, but I think this goes to show that Kbin is alright if at a few months old, it can keep up with software that’s been around for several years at this point.

I think the point is that it’s possible, in theory, maybe depending on your employer. But you get close to that amount of vacation time in total. The majority of Americans don’t get more than two weeks for the entire year, and many get none at all, only sick time. Many Americans can’t even take just two consecutive weeks off any time of the year.

Weird, they do, but they redirect for me and the final URL is different than what you pasted.

https://help.kagi.com/kagi/getting-started/

https://help.kagi.com/kagi/why-kagi/why-pay-for-search.html

My best guess is that a DNS record is messed up on their end, and since I’ve been to those pages before relatively recently, the cname or A-record is still cached for me.

Exactly. Wagner says “not a coup” but if you’re the only force left at the end of the day that’s the only path forward. Doesn’t matter if they don’t make surface changes and Putin is still “president”….Wagner would have effective control.

Based

Ooo thanks for the heads up. I was somehow unaware it was part of his spiders web.

I’ve heard of this. Out of curiosity (because I don’t actually know), do you know if the controllers used in military applications are literally “off the shelf” or if they’re “Xbox-like”, which is what most descriptions about them say.

In other words, I suspect the military(s) using these type of controllers are not just ordering them off Amazon and using them as-is, whereas it sounds like that’s exactly what OceanGate did.

This is so bizarre. I can’t image what was said by Lukashenko. Surely there’s no going back from this for Wagner. This morning he either succeeded or he was a dead man. Either this simply manoeuvring on his part or something scared him more then what he was already going into.

Kagi does exactly what you’re describing. It’s what I’ve been using.

Bear with me here, I’m thinking about all this as a thought experiment…please don’t jump on me all at once :)

I don’t disagree with you, there is a difference in utility, however what would you say to someone who has two homes? Say a vacation home on a lake? This wasn’t uncommon for persons of older generations (before shit got expensive). Because while two homes may not seem egregious to citizens of highly developed countries, it is, relatively speaking, a true extreme luxury in many parts of the world, perhaps even obscene if you consider those who live in shanty towns or those who are homeless.

And what about extra cars? Or any other luxury for that matter? Anything that explains why those in less developed countries see middle-class individuals in developed countries as “rich”?

Now these are nothing in comparison to the several orders of magnitude greater that a billion dollars is, but take them as the best examples I can think of off the too of my head lol.

Remember marginal utility is relative. My point is that, who decides what defines excess to the point where you’d make the argument you just made? where is the line? Certainly billionaires qualify, but how many millions does one need to hit that threshold? And who makes that determination? The individual with the extreme wealth will have warped perceptions (“It’s one banana, Michael. What could it cost, $10?”), so then it must be the non-wealthy who have insight, if any, or is it all relative?

I’m not trying to defend or apologise for the ultra-rich, but I think about these things in the sense of: what would I do if I won the mega-millions? Or had some secret unknown relative bestow obscene wealth on me? Never in a million years of course, but I’m the kind of person who likes to have positions that don’t change situationally, I’d like to be confident enough of my beliefs that I’d know what I’d do if the situation were reversed.

Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk lol. Again please don’t think i’m trying troll or something, this is a philosophical question for me.

This is also how it works in Connecticut. While it may not be perfect, I don’t think it’s entirely unfair. It has the effect of a being a progressive social policy this way in that it is available for those who don’t already have it. Someday it like it to be carte blanche to everyone, but states doing this way is a solid start.

Not at all. I think you're conflating what I said with someone else. I’m only suggested we don’t inadvertently promote this content by creating a front-page post denouncing it.

The point about it being impossible to accomplish is about perfection. It’s a wack-a-mole game. Since this content and people will always be there until found, it’s better to not give them more of an audience.

No site will ever perfectly remove objectionable content. It’s one reason why the upvote downvote system is so valuable for a site like this.

Exactly. We agree? Thats what I said/mean. This post doesn’t ban them, it’s inadvertently advertising their content. There have been several post like this recently. While they may mean well they likely have the opposite effect.

That’s exactly my point. Even when there are better moderating tools and the site admins have time to delete magazines, they will still pop-up faster then you can stop them. No site on the internet has ever fully solved this issue.

Since that is the reality, by avoiding inadvertently promoting them before they’re removed, a site is much more efficient at managing the workload.

Posts like this can have the unintended consequence of spawning more trolls or objectionable actors, this can and does actually make the site management harder.

I legitimately wish I thought of this sooner. Also would help if I had a company to apply with lol. It seems like there was literally nothing stopping this from happening if someone thought of it/was willing to take the risk.

What about the fact that the oil drains to the pan in those few seconds that the engine is stopped?

This is my real concern. Sure you can upgrade starter motors and batteries to handle the extra cycles, but you can’t do anything about increased scoring and wear on cylinders in the milliseconds before the fluids start to circulate again.

This must be a Lemmy thing right? I haven’t experienced this at all on kbin.

On your first line, agreed 100%.

I don’t understand what people are seeing in terms of issues. Maybe once or twice my comment or someone else’s seemed to not be fully synchronised. And Kbin had some notification issues (processing backlog), but the federating problems seem far worse on the Lemmy side. Lemmy has outright protocol bugs.

I wonder if a lot of people are seeing the Kbin error message and assume that is “federation”, when really it’s a host of things that still need to be ironed out site-wise. For example, there is clearly a maximum file size allowed for a photo, but I don’t think there’s a warning coded in there yet, so try to post something too large and you get a site error, reduce the size and it works 100% of the time. That’s not federation, that’s simply Kbin being very new.

And lo and behold it seems like Lemmy’s fault the Kbin isn’t federating properly (blocking inbound Kbin traffic).

That might be true, I’m not a mechanical engineer but despite that, my understanding is that within the engine block itself, cylinders are primarily lubricated via the system holding pressure. This pressure starts to drop the second the engine ceases.

You can notice the effect on cars that have realtime oil temp monitors. Mine does, and it’s digital. My stable oil temp is around 216 degrees Fahrenheit. After a start-stop cycle, even for only 5-10 seconds or so, the temp drops about 5-8 degrees. After a minute, the temp is down 25 degrees. That’s significant. Essentially the engine is no longer “at temp” for the first 30 seconds or so after it resumes. That’s 30 seconds of additional semi-cold, under pressure wear each cycle.

Yes….on a technical level. But the picture is bigger than that. Personally, I have a hunch that the choice of Rust is making Lemmy’s development slower. This seemed to be evidenced by the fact that Kbin has more functionality than Lemmy while having only been around for 2 months. Vs Lemmy’s 4 years. The Kbin dev has also been much more able to fix things on the fly during the surge in users. Whereas Lemmy will supposedly move off websocket use any day now.

Adoptability isn’t something to be discounted. The fact that there any more people out there familiar with PHP may give Kbin an edge over time. And let’s be honest, in real-world test PHP can very often be faster then - less-than-mature-Rust codebase.

@writeblankspace

I agree, I have no idea how much karma I had on my account and I never looked or paid attention.

I’ve never been sure if all the chatter about it is people actually caring, or if it was always mostly a joke.

Small correction. Kbin is not a Lemmy instance. It’s an entirely different backend on the ActivityPub protocol. It federates with “threaded” fediverse sites like Lemmy, and with microblogging sites like Mastodon. Users on kbin can create and interact with both kinds of posts and kbin magazines “Lemmy communities” can natively include both.

Edit: sorry @atypicaloddity I totally misread your comment. Ignore me!

It’s really not brigading by definition. Brigading is a conscious and coordinated effort by many people to target a post or community. There is nothing conscious or coordinated about random people randomly seeing a post and downvoting it.

Brigading is not the right term. Unpopular is.

• This is likely unavoidable because the majority of users of sites like this are not conservative. They trend toward the younger demographics. Millennials overall in the U.S. are 60% left-leaning. Gen Z are almost 70% left-leaning. What you're noticing may only become more pronounced after kbin re-federates. The fediverse is far more international then Reddit ever was and international and non-English posts are not filtered out by region like on Reddit. Conservative US politics are generally farther right than most right-leaning parties in the developed world. So you may be downvoted by international users as well that actually intentionally view magazines or posts with the conservative tag.

Really the only way to avoid this is to create your own instance and de-federate. This is precisely why the far-right social media platforms (like Truth Social) have had to isolate themselves. They’re simply a significant minority on the internet.

If you’d still like to delete you can dm Ernest and he’ll sort it out. There’s a known processing backlog.

The only thing I really dislike about Honda styling right now is the “underbite” look they have on the front. The previous gen had the opposite, almost a pig nosed look. Why can’t they just do normal front designs?

I love the rear this generation and how they toned the entire look down, but they can’t figure out front grills to save their life it seems.

Just a note,

It was shown a lot of the recent threadiverse federation issues were/are being caused by Lemmy. Major Lemmy instances were/are intentionally or unintentionally (due to a bug in their platform), blocking inbound federation traffic from Kbin and Lotide. While allowing their own outbound to go through.

The jury is still out on if it was an oversight/issue with their latest release, or something more nefarious on the part of the devs with regards to competition.

I don’t thinks that’s accurate, Kbin has only co-existed for a few Lemmy versions. I’ve been on Kbin before the initial wave of new users, when the site had about 200 users, federation was fine. You may be thinking of when federation was deliberately broken by Ernest with the entire fediverse for about a week when he had to enable Cloudflare DDOS protection during the first surge of signups.

The specific issue here was highlighted by a Kbin user several days ago. They monitored the traffic back and forth and saw that inbound Kbin-bot requests were denied by Lemmy.ml after the latest upgrade. At the time of that post, Lemmy.world did not have the issues and it had not upgraded yet. I’m not sure if that issue has since been fixed in the code or not.