aski3252

Before last month, lemmy was very very small and comparatively inactive. Lemmy admins are hobbyists who run the server in their spare time, most did/do not want to deal with pornographic content on their server as with it come a lot of potental moderational and legal challanges.

Originally, it was used to describe communists who followed the party line and supported suppressing Hungarian workers with tanks.

Today it means ultra-authoritarian marxist-leninist.

Westerners slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis for decades on end, and it was fine because we labeled them all terrorists.

No, it wasn't fine, that's kinda the point.. It isn't fine when the west does it, it's not fine when others do it too..

Nah, there is definitely a truth to this. I grew up in a working class family who moved into a wealthier region at some point and I would never trade places with people who grew up wealthy. Pretty much all wealthy people are constantly unhappy, are obsessed with control to the point where they alienate their families, they are constantly scared of losing their control, status and wealth, constantly paranoid towards everything and everyone and often engage in self-destructive behaviour.

Of course, not having enough money sucks, it generates stress and restricts autonomy. But a similar thing happens at a certain level of wealth.

Probably neither:

"I think the way she referred to a fellow member was probably not the way we expect our members to refer to other fellow, especially female, members," Harris told Politico, referring to Greene's profane exchange with Boebert.

"I think the straw that broke the camel's back was publicly saying things about another member in terms that no one should."

Many tech companies were overvalued for a long time. Everyone was happy to invest and pump money into those companies because "those platforms are going to be the future and I want to be part of it when they are starting to make a ton of money". It didn't matter that many of those companies were not profitable because they always promised to make up for that in the future.

This classic idea is starting to break down a bit. Many Tech companies have become profitable in the meantime, but many of them also have various troubles like moderation.

So why are so many media companies making "shitty decisions"? Well, because from a business perspective, they aren't necessarily "shitty decisions", they are kinda smart decisions. Reddit makes money by gathering data and by showing ads. They cannot show ads on apps they don't control. So they have to handle a lot of traffic for which they get nothing back. That's why they are trying to push as many people to use their app as possible. They know that the hardcore oldschool community won't like that, but they are probably pretty sure that enough will switch to the app to make it worthwhile for them.

Meta is fighting to stay relevant as well. Facebook was the foundation of social media for a long time, but in the digital space, this can change very quickly, so they constantly have to try new things.

And if we look at games like the Sims, the game who really escalated the whole DLC thing, it's a similar story. From a consumer perspective, what they are doing is bad. From a business perspective, it's smart. And that's what it ultimately comes down to.

Companies' main goal isn't to satisfy their customers, it's making money. If fucking over customers makes them more money, they do it in a heartbeat.

they are way too uptight.

I don't get why people have such a hard time seeing how hard effective moderation of 100'000s of people is.. The people running lemmy aren't companies or businesses, they are hobbyists.. They do all the administration and moderation in their spare time.. Taking care of the server cost is one thing, but moderation is no joke.. Especially when the tools provided are also build by hobbyists who have been building this in their spare time as well..

And it's better to act when you notice that you cannot effectively moderate when things are relatively harmless.. Because what happens when trolls notice that they cannot moderate effectively and actually post harmful content, like threats, cp, etc?

She called her "a little b*tch".

I guess he's trying to redeem himself

I mean that's one way to put it, but at the end of the day, he isn't some manga anti-hero, he is a politician and politicians want to be elected.

I am pretty sure this is about the UAW's change of attitude that puts immense pressure on Biden, especially that they are withholding their endorsment for Biden until he "earned it". And of course Trump is also trying to suck up to the unions, so Biden has to step up his game.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/09/17/uaw-auto-strike-joe-biden-union/70884657007/

Isn't that a bit entitled? Reddit was a company who made money with their users, but Lemmy isn't run by a company, it's run by volunteers. Running a small server is one thing, but who is going to moderate content from 100'000s of users, content generated by an instance that doesn't even have any basic restrictions on it's userbase? What if a large group of people start spamming illegal shit? What if there is suddenly cp showing up on your server instance? Who is going to deal with that, what are the legal implications for that?

One might assume they quit their server, but they didn't.. They just temporarily disabled federation because they feel that they don't have the capabilities to moderate that many users.. You can still apply for a local account on their instance, you can still browse their content without an account..

EDIT: You can even still browse content from beehawk and comment on it, but comments made from lemmy.world will not be visible by beehawk.

@AgentGoldfish

In my opinion, this is an extraordinarily dumb act by the beehaw instance owners. It’s worse for beehaw users than for us, and will likely result in many beehaw users leaving that instance.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but how is it "worse for them"? Sure, if your goal is to create a big community, it's obviously bad, and perhaps it will lead to the death of that community. But their main goal isn't growth, it's having a "save space" and highly moderated community.

In your opinion, how should they have acted to achieve that goal when according to them, they are not able to moderate that much content at the moment in a way they want to? Lemmy.world allows any user to register without any vetting and is one of the biggest communities, does it not make sense to temporarily block content from here to decrease the amount of content to moderate?

Just remember, this isn't Biden having a change of mind necessarily, this is more about Biden answering to pressure. The reason why Biden behaves like this is mostly because the UAW has witheld their endorsment for him, saying that "Biden has to pick a side, either the working class, or the billionaires", that "he has to earn his endorsment" and that "they expect actions, not just words".

Temporararily is the keywprd here..

Excuse me? I support the beehawk admin's decisions, it's a very sensible decision that I suspect other instances will have to seriously consider soon as well because moderation will be an important issue very soon.

My point is that the commenter I replied to and many users who are complaining about this decision, about how "it splits the community in two" and about how "this is classic reddit behaviour" are acting a bit entitled as they don't seem to be aware of the immense problems that come with moderation, especially when you do it as a hobby..

The instance federates with pretty much all other instances as far as I understand.. If you have a problem with that, simply join another instance that blocks instances you don't like. Or better yet, create your own instances with your own rules and block any instance you don't like..

There is no reason to cry and do nothing when the entire point of lemmy is about giving you the power..

This is less about Biden coming to his senses, at the end of the day, Biden does what is politically viable and smart for him. Sure, maybe he has become more progressive, but I think this has more to do with the UAW new militant approach.

And one important thing, which puts a lot of pressure on Biden, is that the UAW has recently always endorsed the democrats, but they now have withheld endorsment for Biden until "he has earned it" and "prooves his solidarity with the working class, not the billionaire class".

And Trump is also trying to pander to the union, so Biden is in a lot of pressure to gain the union's endorsment.

Also, most workers are so deeply alienated because they know that they aren't working for themselves, they are working for someone else. Which is why most people simply stop giving a fuck at some point.

There is so much inefficiency because most who do the actual work don't have much motivation to do a decent job, yet alone think about what they are doing because you simply get punished, or at least don't get any reward, for thinking. And they people who (should) do the thinking often don't have a clue as they live in a bubble.

And of course there is all the bullshit about shipping stuff across the world to do different stuff when it is completely unnecessesary..

With the idea of self-hosted decentralized servers also comes a responsibility. With sites like reddit, the corporation behind it is responsible for everything, including moderating potentially illegal content. With lemmy, this is on the individual servers to handle.

I think it's a bit silly to get all dramatic and say stuff like "Well, guess it’s back to making separate accounts for everything!" just because instances allowing potentially illegal cp are to be de-federated..

And let’s say I wanted to use it, I’m going to install this and instruct my kids how to use crackpipe?

I mean I get your point, but if you instruct your kids how to use a tool for managing pirated games, they are probably going to see a lot harsher stuff than the word "crack pipe"..

Why?

Thank you for your explanation. If it can easily be done, blocking users from lemmy.world seems like the obvious solution then.

I think there was a post made by the admins that basically explained that their technical knowhow is limited and that they are overwhelmed with the situation, perhaps this choice was done because of lack of knowledge.

The main issue with an instance such as lemmy.world is that they don't vet people at all. Beehawk manually approves their users, but that becomes kinda pointless when anyone can just create an account on lemmy.world and then go post on beehawk.

Again, my point isn't that poor people are happy or happier than the wealthy. My point is that our system doesn't even beneft those who are (supposed to be) in charge. They think it does, but it's more like an addiction that controls and destroys them.

Yeah I mean the trend has been obvious for years now, whether you look at GTA or Counterstrike. The times where you released a game, the game was now finished and you move to the next one are long over.

Shock sites always had trouble with the law, which is why most of them have shut down by now and most social media sites remove it. Watching/consuming it is one thing, publicly and openly sharing/promoting it without effectively restricting access to minors will always bring legal issues and legal attacks.. And even when the legal charges are fought successfully, it's still a major pain in the ass most people don't want to deal with.. And then you also have to find ISP's and hosters who are willing to host this kind of material.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotten.com#Legal_disputes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestgore.com#Corruption_of_morals_charge

https://www.dw.com/de/gewaltvideos-im-netz-was-strafrechtlich-erlaubt-ist/a-49871305

https://www.skppsc.ch/de/gewaltvideos-und-illegale-pornografie-auf-smartphones/

You own the license and can sell the license (generally), not the actual game. To use an analogy, if you buy and own a car, you could take it apart or replace any part you like, put the engine into another car, etc. You can't do the equivalent with a typical game and other propertary software, at least not legally, because you don't own it, you just own the right to use it.

Might not make a noticable difference to most people because most people don't do much with games/software apart from using it, but there still is a difference.

Even from a legal perspective tolerating this stuff is a no-go.

They where told ehrnt hry come to lemmy that they can see all post and commryfeom every instant.

An important part of federation is that you can freely choose who you want to federate with and who not.

S popular defederates.snd that makes people wonder.

Why does it make people wonder when they did a great job explaining why they made their decision and even made a post warning people that they might have to defederate?

But also ok the flip side Reddit mods can ban people and make the sub private and no one can do anything about it…

And that's the entire point of the whole thing.. The entire point is that anyone can create a community that they can run however they want (as long as it doesn't impact other communities).. Moderation isn't a bad thing, it's a necessary thing.. Nobody wants illegal pornography and harmful material on their servers..

And beehawk is and always has been very open about them wanting to be a safe space community with strong moderation.. They openly state that their entire motivation for creating their community is to have much stronger moderation than in other social media sites..

You have to keep in mind, this is about protecting people's health and lives.

And just to be clear, Nazis aren't people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes. Nazis hurt and kill people. If an organisation manages to help a neo-nazi leave their gang, but that person still holds some anti-semitic views, that's still a win and anyone who disagrees has some weird priorities in my view..

Would it be better if that person completely dropped those views? Of course, but I prefer a rambling racist 100 times to a neo-nazi throwing molotovs into a refugee home or attacking people in general.

But I'd think recovering nazis are frequently "people who say some anti-semitic stuff sometimes."

Sure, or racist stuff. But antisemitism, racism and sexism are unfortunately not just limited to nazis, there are plenty of other people who say anti semitic, racist, homophobic and sexist stuff.

And I don't like it when people call all racists nazis because in my view, a Nazi is a specific and extreme version of racist. And of course all forms of racism are bad, but some are way way worse than others.

We can’t block them

Of course you can block them, you can block anyone you want... You can only choose to get content from communities you are subscribing to.. You can choose to only get local content.. And if you want, you can even create your own Lemmy instance, only allow people you want, block any other instance you want and only browse locally...

It's as if you browse reddit/r/all and then complain that you get the content from subs you don't want..

I first checked out Lemmy about 2 years ago and was coming around to take a look every now and then. Compared to what is going on since the past couple of days, there were no posts.

Individuals or small teams running instances which don’t take money don’t need to comply to GDPR.

Are you sure about that? So if I hosted a website that shows your name and address, you could do nothing to make me take it down because I'm not an organisation or company?

It's similar to commercials and ads. Everyone thinks they are not affected by such things, but pretty much everyone is affected by them on a subconscious level. Why would companies such as coca cola spend millions of dollars on advertisements? After all, virtually everyone already knows what coca cola is.

Well that depends on the comment, doesn't it? As far as I understand it, if I posted personal information about you, such as your name, home address, etc, in a comment, you could demand from the admin to remove that comment as it would contain personal information you don't want in the open.

Lemmy isn't going to "die" anytime soon, it has already been around for about 4 years now, it's not going anywhere..

Maybe activity will significantly slow down, maybe it will go back to being a super small community, but I don't see it completely getting killed anytime soon.

I wouldn't say discord, it's use is more similar to instant messaging like what's app. And it's not really an app or a service, but more like a protocol. There are already multiple clients and servers with which you can use Matrix.

It's also federated like lemmy.

Globalized trade has been a thing long before neo-liberalism existed, arguably longer than capitalism has existed. Equating neo-liberalism with "global/globalized trade" is incredibly reductive..

EDIT: I read the comment wrong, OP is saying that international/global trade is not inherently bad, not that neo-liberalism is the same thing as international/global trade.

They’ve also made a lot of shitty decisions.

That's the thing with tech companies. They are fast to rise, but also fast to fall, so they are always on the lookout for the next big thing. Blockchain tech was supposed to be the next big thing. Crypto currency was at the time already kinda the big thing in the tech industry's eyes. And of course when that happens, everyone wants to be early bird for the next big thing and caution is pushed to the side.

VR and AR are the same. It was and still is supposed to be the next big thing. Another one would be language models and "A.I.". But because all those "new things" tend to be massively over hyped by people who often don't really understand it and just have dollar signs in their eyes, they inevitably support the wrong thing every once in a while.

Absolutely, this is a good thing. The only reason why I mention it is so that people remember to keep up the pressure and don't just start to blindly trust Biden to "do the right thing" all by himself. Biden needs "encouragement" and if he doesn't get it from the unions, he will get it from some industry lobby.