Exactly!

It’s not about Totalizing Enforcement. What it changes is the cultural norm. Not right away but over time.

An age limit on alcohol never stopped anyone of any age to acquire alcohol, but it sets the societal bar for what’s acceptable. You don’t wanna be the parents that gave your kids alcoholic beverages at 13.

It’s always a little jarring how everyone very readily believes that the Scandinavian countries are the happiest in the world, but won’t believe that the incremental policy changes we implement here have any effect 🤷‍♂️

The general idea is good, but I still believe the best solution is the ability for Communities to follow other Communities. That is essentially a fully automated version of this sibling proposal.

This has been explained in great detail by ‘jamon’ here:

https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/1113#issuecomment-1595273502

This basically lets Communities opt to federate directly with other Communities, abiding by the same network dynamics as the fediverse at large, I.e. cross-network moderation by (de)federation.

Here’s a succinct description of the problem that C-C following solves:

If you are an active user (not moderator) of Lemmy, the requirement for this becomes apparent almost immediately. One of the biggest strengths of these forum are communities-at-scale. Being able to easily post and interact with large groups of people is the benefit to the user that makes Lemmy (and all other social media) appealing.

As a user, I recently wanted to post to AskLemmy. Almost every single instance has thier own separate AskLemmy implementation. Naturally, I'd tend to post to the one with the most users. But inherently, I'm missing the majority of users by only being able to post to one. I.E., I posted to AskLemmy@lemmy.ml (which had 3k users), but by doing that, I'm missing out on the users from lemm.ee, behaw, lemmy.world which in total are far more than 3k.

His point is there is no one protocol for the social web. The (open) social web is built on a pluriverse of protocols, like rss, email, irc, matrix, activitypub, atproto…

Suddenly every comic post I’ve seen has source links included now!

Maybe it was already a more common practice than I realized, but it sure looks like the fediverse hivemind took my simple bit of feedback to heart and promptly began acting accordingly. I love it here 🥰

One thing that seems to go unappreciated in the comments is the simplicity of this interop proposal: It is essentially about enabling quote-posting of link-aggregator(Groups) posts.

Bluesky + Frontpage will work this way, and I believe it’ll work exceedingly well. If the ap-net corner of the fediverse isn’t interested in this kind of interop, fair enough. To me however the promise of seamless interop between my social apps was what brought me to the fediverse, so that’s the version of the fediverse I will pursue.

What you want is Group-to-Group Following, which obviates the need for most cross-posting altogether.

https://blog.erlend.sh/transitioning-r-rust-to-the-threadiverse

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fep-d36d-sharing-content-across-federated-forums/3366

I think Lemmy should come up with a meta cross post type. Where the post only exists once, but it's indexed in multiple communities, and moderators of those communities can remove the cross post. Without affecting the original post.

This is effectively how the Community-following-Community proposal works. I’ll repost what I commented in this thread:

I still believe the best solution is the ability for Communities to follow other Communities. That is essentially a fully automated version of this sibling proposal.

This has been explained in great detail by ‘jamon’ here:

https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/1113#issuecomment-1595273502

This basically lets Communities opt to federate directly with other Communities, abiding by the same network dynamics as the fediverse at large, I.e. cross-network moderation by (de)federation.

Here’s a succinct description of the problem that C-C following solves:

If you are an active user (not moderator) of Lemmy, the requirement for this becomes apparent almost immediately. One of the biggest strengths of these forum are communities-at-scale. Being able to easily post and interact with large groups of people is the benefit to the user that makes Lemmy (and all other social media) appealing.

As a user, I recently wanted to post to AskLemmy. Almost every single instance has thier own separate AskLemmy implementation. Naturally, I'd tend to post to the one with the most users. But inherently, I'm missing the majority of users by only being able to post to one. I.E., I posted to AskLemmy@lemmy.ml (which had 3k users), but by doing that, I'm missing out on the users from lemm.ee, behaw, lemmy.world which in total are far more than 3k.

There is already a FEP for this functionality: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fep-d36d-sharing-content-across-federated-forums/3366?u=erlend_sh

Heh yeh it’s kind of a mashup of two different streams of thought. I might repurpose ‘fediverse is a movement’ for a new, more cogent article.

Heh sure! Maybe I can get away with a slightly longer shorthand, like APub.

edit: Hey look at that, we can edit post titles in Lemmy ✨

Big Social Media shares many characteristics of a drug, with similar anti-social consequences by overuse. But as with drugs, social media is just a symptom of the underlying problem.

It will still have made the rounds, since it trended on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39667026

Yep. It’s Mastodon-compatible. Currently it’s UI-less (backend-only) like GoToSocial.

Oh, thanks! I must have followed a gift link via Doctorow’s social because I didn’t encounter the paywall.

I’ve been reading a lot of your exchanges on the Lemmy GitHub and I can tell you with a high degree of confidence that you are not the subject of a hazing ritual. What’s going on is a miscommunication issue; there’s no ill will directed towards you.

The Lemmy devs are under a great deal of stress these days due to the recent influx of activity, both on the big Lemmy instances as well as the Lemmy GitHub. You’ve clearly gone to great lengths to investigate various SQL bottlenecks in Lemmy, and this work does not go unnoticed or unappreciated.

The problem you’re likely running into is that the Lemmy devs are trying to address a wide array of issues, whereas you are zoomed in on some very specific performance problems. Whether or not the core devs are wrong when they say your findings are irrelevant is beside the point. What they are really saying is that they do not have the attention bandwidth to try to see what you are seeing right now.

If you find yourself unable to work with the Lemmy project, there are other fedi projects in Rust like Mitra or Kitsune which might be more receptive to your contributions. I’m personally very interested in seeing rudimentary Lemmy (Groups et.al.) compatibility in Kitsune.

Here are some of the main culprits: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/2877

Take this🏅

Yeah, just a single instance recommendation is best imo. Having to choose between two instances is still a significant mental load compared to the singular options most people are used to when joining a new platform.

Sounds like the sort of thing Cory Doctorow would write.

Most of the people who organize on SocialHub use this Matrix space to discuss fediverse development:

https://matrix.to/#/%23fediverse-developer-network:matrix.org

https://fedidevs.org/

Maybe we could get everyone in here instead? They’re eager to decentralize the ownership of the org, so representatives from the Lemmy community would be very welcome to step into leadership roles.

Maybe it’s doable with the new plug-ins system? I’ve asked in the issue.

This sounds great!

Are you familiar with the local-first tenets? Seems like a natural fit for the local nature of your app:

https://youtu.be/NMq0vncHJvU

Thank you!

Yeah I get that. What ‘works’ means in the context of local-first is flexible though. This might provide a useful framing: https://blog.jim-nielsen.com/2023/offline-is-online-with-extreme-latency/

In any case, you’re definitely right to focus on your specific use case first without trying to fit it into any specific paradigm. I’m excited to follow Habitat’s progress!

Something a bit similar to what lemmit is already doing, but more powerful with your addition of comments: read-only, best-of archives of really old content from popular subs.

10-5 year old askreddit posts for instance would be interesting blasts from the past to read today. Isn’t there already a ‘best of Reddit’ convention on Reddit itself that resurfaces such content from time to time?

While I am strongly in favor of this, I suspect going fully open source might be 'too much, too soon' for ljdawson, as I'm not sure how used they are to open source practices.

As a gentler stepping stone that doesn't feel like giving all control away, I would suggest sharing the source code under the PolyForm Noncommercial license: https://polyformproject.org/licenses/noncommercial/1.0.0/

In other words, a 'shared-source' license that makes the code available for review, contributions and even copying, but disallows unauthorized commercial use. This provides a middle road between the fully proprietary protections Sync is used to, and the new open landscape of Lemmy & friends that it is venturing into.

For Redditors coming here who are unfamiliar with open source, here's a comprehensive introduction for those who care to find out: https://blog.erlend.sh/open-source-explained

In short, it is an essential antidote to enshittification.

Haven’t seen the movie yet (guess I’ll have to now), but I imagine it’s a good pairing with this: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7193362/