There is nowhere you can get unbiased news. You have to analyze the bias and think critically about it if you want to really understand what's happening.

The elites don't want you to know this but the fighter jets at overseas military bases are free you can take them home. I have 12 F-35s

Are you stupid or are you a hasbara troll?

They said they're willing to, but only in exchange for a permanent ceasefire and the release of Palestinian prisoners

what, that's ethnic cleansing.

God I hope they track down Monday and kill that terrorist son of a bitch.

fuck slave holders" "Your failure to condemn nat turner undermines the value of your opinion"

Yeah what Hamas did was awful and horrific, I agree. But it's not fair to expect everyone to always go around condemning them in discussions of Israeli war crimes.

...no? they did, that's universally undisputed. even hamas would say that.

Reports (Doppler sound analysis and crater analysis) show that it came from the direction of Israel. There isn't any video of a rocket turning around so idk how it could have been a pij rocket.

Both sides are doing a lot of lying tho, we need an independent investigation on the ground there to really figure out what happened, but Israel opposed that.

The jewish population isn't a monolith. There are some orgs that back Israel, and others, like Jewish Voice for Peace which do incredible work advocating for Palestinian liberation.

UNRWA took back that accusation. Any other source?

Well if they're a hasbara troll then they're a pos, but at least they're doing it bc Israel told them too not bc they genuinely don't know what's going on

All parts of Palestine are oppressed and see negotiations as futile because Israel does not negotiate in good faith. When compromising means giving up the right to return to the land you were kicked out of, can you really blame them for not wanting to compromise?

On top of this, if they're no longer oppressed, people no longer feel the need to turn to Hamas and other terrorist organizations.

Saying you support Israel for that reason is like saying you support apartheid in south Africa or colonial algeria because if you don't support them the people in power will be ethnically cleansed.

Why do people both sides this issue? We would never both sides the ANC vs. Apartheid, or Algeria vs. the French, or Haiti vs the French, or Native Americans vs Colonists, or Nat Turner vs slaveholders, because even though everyone committed horrific crimes that should never have been commited, one side was clearly worse. Why is this situation different.

Wait charter schools get money thrown at them? Mine had a lot less funding than public schools

They should have gone into gaza and tried to only kill people who shot back at them yeah. I do not care if they get ambushed and die, that is far better than a newborn in Gaza getting vaporized by a JDAM along with their entire family because Israel lied about Hamas being in their house.

You’re saying that Israel is lying that Hamas is inside the innocent’s homes?

Yes, and until they provide evidence for every single building that they bombed in Gaza and Lebanon and the west bank, I will continue to think so.

Hamas needs to be destroyed

Sure, and the way to do that is to undermine their support by a) not bombing innocents in gaza and b) withdrawing settlements in the west bank to show Palestinians that the PA is the path to freedom, not hamas. Not radicalizing people is how you get rid of radical terrorist groups.

If Israel really wants the military solution, they can throw soldiers at urban combat, but it's probably the 2nd worst solution. Or maybe the 1st, considering how Israeli troops have a track record of deliberately targeting civilians, including children medics and journalists.

Israel told all civilians to flee south and notify places that they are about to bomb

There are so many things wrong with this. Warning about committing war crimes doesn't make them ok. They also stopped doing roof knocks, so no more warning. Regardless, Israel continues to bomb the south, they're bombing everywhere. They're even bombing ambulances.

That's a picture of tanks, how do u know they're full? A random picture posted on Twitter isn't a valid source.

How do I contact the IDF I have an airstrike target for them

Biden is not the left lmao

Send in soldiers to go kill Hamas guys without leveling an entire apartment building?

Or undermine Hamas politically by not making the PA seem like Israeli cucks.

As is Hamas. No one is a saint in this conflict, unfortunately.

100% agree. No saints in war.

You do realize that means Palestine is also going to be eradicated, right? The Jews had claim to the land before the Ottomans.

The Canaanites were there first. Both Palestinian Jews and Arabs descended from the Canaanites, which in turn likely descended from neolithic people who lived in the area. If you're going to use the historical claim stuff from hundreds of years ago, a secular Palestinian state would be the only state with a right to exist in that area.

How will you protect a wall that spans 40km, close to Israeli civilians and Gaza citizens

170k active duty, 465k reservists. 635,000 people in all, for 40,000 meters of border. Israel is rich enough to supply them with food and weapons, so really they can create fortified positions behind the wall and then fill it with people. And they've also got drones and jets, so it would be pretty easy to airstrike anyone who breached the border wall. The important thing would be for them to make the fortifications outside of rock throwing range so they have no excuse to kill innocent civilians.

Regardless, Israel won both wars, it is their claim–Palestine fought and lost.

Might does not make right. Russia invaded Crimea and won, does that make it rightfully theirs? If China invaded Taiwan, would that make it rightfully theirs? Just because Nat Turner and John Brown lost doesn't mean they should have just said "oh well" and kept slavery. The Native Americans losing against the US didn't justify forcing them onto reservations.

Can you find any other reputable sources reporting it? Neutral ones. If it’s the international red cross, there should already be a UN report.

Reuters wrote about it, that's the least biased news website I can think of. https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fworld%2Fmiddle-east%2Fgaza-rescue-workers-scared-exhausted-under-israels-air-strikes-2023-10-13%2F

but there shouldn’t be any aggression going on, right?

I mean idk, I do get angry at some of this stuff. And I think that's fine, cause there is a genocide going on and innocent civilians on both sides are suffering so badly because Israel couldn't keep themselves from colonizing. You should get angry at this.

But if you're open to change your mind, I'm happy to continue talking about this.

Not radicalize more people? Respond without wiping out 50% of the residential buildings?

They're Palestinian women and children, not terrorists. It's a trade of innocents for innocents

Just curious, what are your opinions on Ukraine and Russia? Do you defend Ukraine even tho they did the same things?

People said the dialect is off in the audio, and it sounds staged.

I don't think we're in conspiracy theory territory, there's evidence against both sides and both sides have lied. We don't know wtf happened.

Thanks for this post MrPoopyButthole

make nations hesitant to send fuel which could end up in the hands of Hamas and other militant groups that use fuel for their rockets and combat.

Does hamas have diesel powered rockets??? Like i guess you can power motorcycles but I was under the impression that hamas used sugar rocket motors or something similar, cause like how are they gonna use liquid rocket engines.

I know that 1000L lasts for like a couple hours at best so the IDF has to get their story straight, where are they getting the 8 days figure.

Ah i see, that could be why they walked it back then. Assuming they did steal it, how much diesel was the UNRWA facility storing? I heard on an interveiw with CNN an IDF person said they had 1000L of diesel, which isn't gonna power a hospital (or anything else for that matter) for very long at all.

1 state secular solution, Palestinians have the same rights as isralis, Hamas and IDF people are tried and punished for war crimes, kick out all settlers.

They have yet to formally come down on one side or another, their initial findings are consistent with it not being Israeli JDAMs and did not dispute claims that the attack “came from within Gaza”

Yeah it probably wasn't a JDAM, those seem waaay too powerful. Here's a source associated with the University of London. They also haven't made a definite conclusion but they said it came from Israel and also the crater lined up with artillery. You can read about their findings here. https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414

Do you have a solid resource regarding the dialect claims? Would be curious in reading more.

Other than Al-Jazeera no, and I agree that it isn't the best source. I know an international student from my uni that agrees but again that isn't a solid source, just a dude.

As opposed to multiple governments (not just the US slobbering all over that circumcised winky) increasingly acknowledging that it appears to not be the IDF and news outlets retracting their claims.

I mean idk, there hasn't been proof provided (a clip from a phone call that is disputed is pretty much it), so I don't think its reasonable for anybody to make a definitive conclusion yet. I do think it is good that news places are retracting their claims, because again there isn't enough info.

Ignoring all of the IDF/USA and Hamas/PIJ claims, all I've seen is: Crater and doppler analysis shows it came from Israel (direction wise), and the crater shows the same. The crater lines up with artillery or a rocket, but not a JDAM. Hamas rockets have misfired before, Israel warned the hospital to evacuate and also hit the same hospital with a rocket a few days earlier. Someone (hamas or pij) was launching rockets near the hospital around that time, but we can't see any rockets turning around in the air and going northeast.

What the fuck are you saying. It is entirely possible for people to coexist peacefully, like they did under the ottomans, under 1 secular state.

Well alright. I prefer to go by information, personally.

Ok, that's fine. Israel is still commiting horrific war crimes based on information, but the extent is what is in question.

Israeli Settlements in the West Bank

Settler colonialism is a cancer and should be eradicated from this planet. It is illegal by international law. Israel can claim they are for whatever it wants, it is still settler colonialism. If you can defend Israel's actions in the west bank, I don't think this discussion is going to be productive.

That’s an entire border, an insane amount of resources

Sucks to suck. Israel has billions of dollars of funding annually and mandatory conscription. They can step the fuck up and protect their own civilians without committing war crimes.

But that’s how Israel came to be. Palestine and the Arab League had wars about this and lost to Israeli

Israel came to be through colonialism. Thus any action against them is revolutionary. Just because Israel crushed the revolutionary action doesn't make Israel the revolutionary force.

Do you have a reputable source?

The source is the Palestinian Red Crescent Society, which is part of the International Red Cross. CNN is simply restating it.

They've been doing that for years. They shot Shireen Abu Akleh, showed up at her funeral to beat the shit out of the people carrying her coffin, and then just recently bulldozed the memorial to her.

Currently, Israel is killing civilians and children at a higher rate than Yemen. And yemens population is 16 times that of gaza.

I mean I think that if Israel allows food, water, and gas to enter Gaza through humanitarian corridors, Hamas isn't gonna attack the convoys. They disregard the consequences for Palestinian civilians sometimes but they also need to keep their recruiting up, and attacking food convoys would make that impossible.

They might steal some stuff I guess, but it wouldn't harm anyone, since the most that could happen is Hamas gets to fuel a car that gets blown up by an Israeli airstrike as soon as they try to do anything.

Here's the Doppler analysis: https://twitter.com/earshot_ngo/status/1715381907230232929?t=ThRPeh4fxC8c_uIbLJAWNQ&s=19

Here's the crater analysis: https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422498852843574?t=wRAbOY1NPlRu4fx5gJ_Qzg&s=19

And the rocket thing doesn't make any sense, the rocket would have had to turn 180 degrees in the air in order to line up with the direction, and we don't see that in any videos. On top of that, the New York times did an analysis of the footage Israel presented and showed that they were lying about the rocket, it didn't get intercepted/malfunction over the hospital. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html?smid=url-share

So what we know is that the projectile came from Israels direction, the crater lines up with either a rocket or an artillery shell. We also know that Israel initially claimed the attack before deleting those messages, and most of the evidence they've presented has been proven to be lies. It's not definitely Israel, but circumstantial evidence points towards them.

Are they claiming the opposite direction? The graphic is REALLY confusing with the blue line having directionality but the red cone not.

Yeah they are, I agree it isn't the clearest. But that's what the messages later in the thread say.

I know that there are a lot of discrepancies, but I really don't trust governments, so I don't think its reasonable to trust them unless they provide genuine evidence, not just "bro trust me". We'll have to wait for Israel and Hamas/PIJ/etc. to let independent investigators go inspect the hospital, and yeah idk if that's ever gonna happen. Hamas lied about the death count and the missile fragment, Israel lied (tweeted that they did it then deleted it, posted fake videos, maybe faked phone call). But the evidence available to the public points towards Israel, albeit circumstantially, so I think it's reasonable to say I think Israel probably did it.

Not that any of this matters at the end of the day, more and more palestinian kids are being vaporized by JDAMs every day and nothing we can do changes that.

My understanding is that the “Israel warned them to leave” is misleading. Isreal has been “warning” EVERYONE to leave and repeatedly threatening hospitals because… it would be really bad PR if they blew up (another) hospital.

WHO says they've been ordering every hospital in north gaza to evacuate, and they word it like they're specifically sending this message to the hospitals. https://www.who.int/news/item/14-10-2023-evacuation-orders-by-israel-to-hospitals-in-northern-gaza-are-a-death-sentence-for-the-sick-and-injured

EDIT: disregard the above i misread what you said. Yeah israel is warning everywhere to leave and then bombing everywhere. Regardless, they already hit this hospital, so its reasonable to assume they would hit it again.

They basically are building this claim on the claimed direction being on the outer edge of the projection from their models?

No they're saying the projectile came from approximately the opposite direction as Israel claimed. The red on the compass is the incoming direction.

Which gets to the point that not all OSINT is made equally.

I would trust this org though, they've presented findings in front of the UN, they've received funding from the EU, they seem very legit.

It's parody/satire, that's their entire account. Sheev P refers to sheev palpetine.