That sounds like a reasonable comparison, until one realizes that we are not talking about WMDs here, we are talking about the occupied Palestinian territories. Then, your comparison not only falls apart, but is also exposed as a bad faith one.

First, if Israel giving up the territories is similar to Ukraine giving up its WMDs, i.e., an existential threat, then Israel should never do that. I.e., peace is impossible and the two state solution is impossible. The only option left is ... ethnic cleansing and genocide. Is that what you are arguing for?? Be clear about what you say. Because I don't think you are arguing for the dismantling of the apartheid regime in all of greater Israel: one state from the river to the sea with equal rights for everyone.

Second, Israel actually has WMDs and would be keeping them after the establishment of a Palestinian state. So, if anything it would be in a stronger position than Ukraine, heaving the guarantee from its neighbours and its own WMDs to fall back to.

Third, you are comparing Israel to Ukraine. This casts Israel as the victim, the one that is subjected to occupation and violation of its integrity. The opposite is true. Israel is the occupier, the oppressor and the violator international law.

So, no, your comment doesn't stand to scrutiny.

Egypt and Jordan have both normalized relations with Israel. They are absolutely not threats.

Syria and Lebanon are failed states. The threats to Israel come from non state actors within them. Such actors can only be truly neutralized by (a) capturing and trying the leadership -rather than making them martyrs by extra judicial killings, and (b) by removing their legitimacy, i.e., by ending Israel's illegal occupation and colonization of the West Bank, and by letting Gaza breathe. Basically, these non state actors can only be defeated politically at this point.

That said, it is clear that Israel has gone rabid. The rest of the world at this point is more worried about the safety of its neighbours from it. There is no credible actual threat to Israel any more. But there is a credible genocide and ethnic cleansing going on under/by Israeli arms. The Israeli far right (that is part of the government) contains powerful elements that are already planning the colonization of Gaza and Southern Lebanon. Internally, even dissenting Jewish Israelis are facing repercussions for not towing the extreme nationalist line. The settlers are the strongest political force in the country. Etc etc. Israel needs to be deradicalized. There need to be limits placed and there need to be consequences

Ultimately we need nothing less than the complete and blind application of international law. If that is too radical for Americans or Israelis, too bad.

noun: failed state; plural noun: failed states a state whose political or economic system has become so weak that the government is no longer in control.

You might be thinking "morally failed" instead?

First off, like @usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca points out, Israel's actions have been far from helpful to begin with.

Second, let's be completely honest here, the rockets from Hamas and to an extent the rockets from Hezbollah: they are Israel's problem. I don't see why my Greek-Canadian ass needs to be solving the problems created by Israel when it completely killed off the Oslo accords. Israel has all the power here. It's Israel that has been colonizing and besieging the Palestinians. It's Israel that has been building illegal settlements on illegally occupied land. It's Israel that was occupying Souther Lebanon for 20 years, etc. In the last decades, unequivocally, they are the aggressors. When Hamas did the October 7th atrocities, I really don't get why the Israelis were surprised. Gazans have lived in a city-wide concentration camp for 20 years. Any young adult participating in the October 7th atrocities has never experienced anything else in their whole lives. Is it really surprising that some significant percentage of such a people would resort to this kind of utter atrocity? Norman Finkelstein has made a great parallel with the Nat Turner rebellion in the US, when slaves rebelled and did unspeakable crimes to whites, and the abolitionists at the time were right to just say "well, what the fuck did you expect?".

Third, fuck yes, it's easy to say. Israel itself in its own history has shown what it is capable. If instead of prepping terrorist attacks with pagers they had been spending their time doing to Haniyeh what they did to Eichmann, kidnap him, then bring him in Israel and give him a fair trial, I would be applauding them, I would be saluting them. When I say that Israel has gone rabid and needs to be deradicalized, I draw exactly this parallel. The generation of Israelis that were the perpetrators of the 1948 Nakba (so, not a bunch of boy scouts) had the moral spine to put Eichmann on the stand, give him an Israeli lawyer who defended him in good faith, and to give him a fair trial. Those bastards, they did that noble act. These petty criminals of today? Bah!

And fourth, if there is any good journalist out there, they should ask the Jordanian minister what he means by "guarantee". Would an pan-Arab peacekeeping force be deployed in the hot spots to maintain the terms of the deal? It is almost certain that an independent Palestine would immediately fall into some kind of civil war, just like the newly independent Ireland. Is the minister saying for example that they would be willing to fight that war on behalf of the moderate Palestinians? Don't ask me, ask him.

Yet it's the only way to peace. Germany and France put their faith into each others' guarantees after WW2 and created the EU. Peace is possible.

Where is "here" for your buddy?

"you see, after I beat you to a pulp, I stopped beating you to a pulp, so that means I'm peaceful"

The IDF HQ is in central Tel Aviv.

Hell, forget the ME, the Greek army HQ is next to a metro station. The Canadian Army HQ is in central Ottawa. Indian army HQ in downtown New Delhi.

This is not the own that the "human shields" narrative for Lebanon wants it to be.

Is Israel still ethnically cleansing Palestine?

Nakba denialism is cringe.

Saudi clown prince.

Here you go: https://maps.app.goo.gl/M4uFig4YF5PL8Zp56

Edit: the line between "it happened organically through urban growth" and "was put there on purpose" is the line between "I like them" and "I don't like them". Like who you like but don't expect everyone to buy into your narrative.

They have meant people not being killed, so I dunno, that's something?

Americans, leash your fucking dog.

The government of France bans protests... I've heard that one before I think. What did the French do after?

The Streisand effect.

Germany equating its historic debt to Jewish people with support for a particular state is an absolutely disgusting distortion of the German obligation of remembrance.

Just like this, they throw under the bus any anti-Zionist Jew.

Honestly, when it comes to Israel/Palestine, the German state should just do what their other genocide victim, Namibia, told them to do and Shut. The. Fuck. Up. Stay the fuck out of it. Say the honorable thing that you will abide by the rulings of international courts. Provide humanitarian aid, help refugees and displaced people. Be a ray of light and humanity, not a stickler for rules and definitions. Don't be so goddamn fucking German for a change.

The US is ready to nuke what's left of international law in order to protect a couple of criminals.

That are ready to bring us back to the era of the League of Nations just so that Bibi fucking Netanyahu doesn't go to trial.

Canada, the EU, and a bunch of other Western countries are signatories to the treaty of Rome. What do they have to say about this bullying behaviour of the US government?

I am getting tired of liberals (in the European sense, not the American sense) clutching their pearls at the resurgence of the fascist right when they did everything they could to kill off the socialist left everywhere in Europe. If you shift the Overton window so that your corporate neoliberal asses are the left side of it, what the fuck do you expect to be at its right side?

Let's see how convictions and incarceration times for these Nazis will compare to the ones handed down to the peaceful and objectively righteous Just Stop Oil protesters.

Airplanes need to start having a "brig" like boats. This taping people down business is silly.

Edit: I love how people are seriously responding to this bit of poop-time wisdom.

Khelif was assigned female at birth, has lived her entire life as a woman, has a passport that lists her as a woman from a country that has no trans rights.

If this had happened in the 1904 St Louis Olympics, when women's boxing was first an Olympic sport, nobody would have batted an eyelid. This is just right wing moral panic.

They are state sponsored terrorists.

Only one person cares about these ratings, and he hates this.

Palestine has a right to defend itself.

Logistics is king folks, remember that.

What's wrong with overnight oats? I really like them.

The media later: why doesn't anyone trust us and believe in wild conspiracy theories?

They destroy their own credibility and then cry foul when the extreme right uses this to spread hate propaganda.

Fascists gonna fascist.

The commercialization of housing has failed.

Because the real world is not a Civ game.

When I moved to Mastodon, I stopped caring about the Twitter dumpster fire. It was great.

I am trying to do the same with Lemmy, to forget about Reddit. It's gone. We are here now.

These people might have been alive if we had a ceasefire. But no, Netanyahu's political career is more important.

Maxim Katz has explained that these kinds of deranged declarations are not directed at us. They are a kind of symbolic self-humiliation of Medvedev to prove to Putin that he is still loyal. It's "look I am willing to appear so wretched and ridiculous to the foreigners, I could not possibly be a threat to you, I am not some kind of alternative that could replace you, I am such a silly man, please don't throw me out of a window".

Fuck the morality police.

Well that's a convenient naming coincidence.

Now, what I would do if I were Brian Molko is I would absolutely go to trial. Turn it in a show. Either I get convicted, in which case, Meloni looks even more like a fascist, or I get exonerated, in which case, it's the courts that are accepting that she's a fascist.

5000E is not an issue, he can fundraise that in an afternoon.

GO BRIAN

It was not a cross border attack. It was a special military operation.

Netanyahu is taking Israel down a very very dangerous path. This will not end well.

Daniella Weiss, what a horrible person. She will probably never face justice for her crimes.