China's new national map has set off a wave of protests. Why?
China has upset many countries in the Asia-Pacific region with its release of a new official map that lays claim to most of the South China Sea, as well as to contested parts of India and Russia, and official objections continue to mount. What is the map, and why is it upsetting people so much?
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It seems significant, then, that Beijing chose to release the map on the heels of a late August meeting of the BRICS nations — Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa -- and just before China is to participate in top-level meetings of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations and the Group of 20 rich and developing nations.
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In releasing the map now, Beijing is widely seen as signaling it has no intention of backing down on any of its claims and is making sure that its positions are fresh in the minds of other countries in the region.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any territories that have been incorporated into the US since WWII. The military interventions and soft power stuff hasn't added any territory.
If you’re okay with military interventions and soft power; surely you’re okay, or at least ambivalent, with China doing the same thing.
It depends entirely on the reason. I am not universally opposed to military intervention. But I think the US has wrongfully intervened before as well. It all depends on whether it's a just war.
It’s in China’s self-interest to expand their financial hegemony and weaken America’s. To them, it is just. American Exceptionalism is a myth. We are no better than any other country, and the readers here need to be reminded.
This guy is definitely a troll, he shows up on a lot of posts to try and deflect any criticism back to America. Im guessing if you check his profile you’ll see what I mean but his name has stood out a couple times now on other threads.
I’m human and American. Not a troll. I just see the world as objectively as I can, not how I want it to be. I live in America, but I don’t let my selfishness cloud the reality that America is the cause of many of the world’s problems. You don’t have to agree with me. That’s fine. I’m just here to elevate the discussion beyond the myth of American Exceptionalism.
You're truly exceptional and everyone else is dumb and biased.
No. I have biases and I’m consistently wrong and corrected. But I do try to temper my predilections and use empathy to see other points of view. Compassion is a virtue. I do think I’m smart, not exceptional though. I enjoy learning and encourage everyone to do the same. There are many people on here that are smarter than me, and I welcome their criticism.
Do you have a moral compass? A set of values you compare other things against? If so, does it apply to your views on foreign policy?
Yes. I am a utilitarian and a consequentialist. I’m concerned for the world, not just America’s interests. So all my foreign policy considerations flow from that.
So the good of humanity is the top interest right? So things that China does that are bad for humanity are bad, right? It seems to me like self interested territorial expansion, possibly with military force, would be pretty bad for humanity on the whole.
Yes. Any nation that subverts the sovereignty of another nation through trade or violence is bad for humanity. But eastern and western media create a false dichotomy that if one is good, the other must be bad. It benefits media financially and the governments agendas. But there are other choices. Unfortunately, the geopolitics of trade dictate conflicts over resources so that the other options are untenable. Idealistically, an international system could determine trade and exchange of resources. Realistically, there is no international body that can enforce nations to isolate. So we war.
Edit: I’m not a geopolitical expert.
I agree both western and eastern countries can and have been in the wrong. I think that's the point your trying to make. And I agree.
Your original comment sounded like you were saying both are okay, or that China's aggression was not bad.
I only take the contrarian stance to make people think about the news they are ingesting. In my view all nations are bad, and this is just a struggle between ruling classes. Most people in the world are just trying to survive and get through their day. It’s those with money and power that war.
You might want to specify you think both are bad rather than that one excuses the other. Whataboutism (where one deflects to bad things other countries have done) is extremely common in justifying absolutely horrific things. Such as the invasion of Ukraine, the ongoing Ethnocide of Uyghurs, or even the Holocaust.
Ok
Self interest is not absolutely just. Morality isn't defined by what the local government says.
For example, the US in Cuba was unjust though it was in their best interest.
Correct. Utilitarianism is contextual and relative.
But even utilitarianism needs an ultimate goal to maximize utility towards. Is that ultimate good the good of humanity, or the good of China or the US?
The good of humanity.
So when China or the US does things in their own best interest that are against humanity we can condemn them both?
Yes. Or Russia, NATO, BRICS. No nation or organization of nations should have a mandate.
Then we agree on that.
Thanks for entertaining a different perspective.
Let me put it like this: China is done. Within the next ten years it will go into decline. They have a birth problem (don't they always?) and current estimates are that by 2050 they'll only have 800 million left of the 1.something billion they have now. This will cause a shit tonne of issues coupled with their economy already being a huge bubble at the moment. Japan had (still has) a similar issue.
With that, their economy will fall, their military power will fall, their world influence will fall.
Source?
Try https://youtu.be/KiaukPUV6Hg?si=5_FqDLj2CSB7wxav I haven't finished this one but it talked about similar issues and the author typically makes well researched videos
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/KiaukPUV6Hg?si=5_FqDLj2CSB7wxav
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Thanks. I’ll watch that. This is not isolated to China though. Japan, America, S.Korea are also experiencing birth declines. It’s a concern in the developed world. I think only Africa is experiencing an increase, as they are developing countries.
South Korea indeed has a similar issue, the USA by my knowledge does not.
Multiples, I'll have to look them up. I'll see if I can find a YouTube video that explains it easier.
Try NATO, defense.gov or state.gov.
It's so weird, you claimed that China and America are doing the same thing, someone just tells you why you're wrong, and you just pivot your position around to something different without acknowledging what just happened.
Is your brain okay?
I hope so. Thanks for asking. I was wrong about territorial expansion since WW2. But I meant to reference American Imperialism. We discussed it.