I mean, as soon as the US decided to withholds its information on the matter we already knew the answer.
Israel is a bunch of lying shitbags. Can't trust them anymore than Russia.
Agreed. If the us had proof they would share in an instant
You can't trust them even at the level of Russia.
The Russians aren't anywhere as racist towards Ukranians as the Israelis are towards Arabs in general and Palestinians specifically.
Imperialist motivations are bad enough, but add rabid racism on top of those and it's a far darker monster that will casually do far darker deeds.
You mean when Putin said that Ukraine shouldn't exist and that Ukrainian culture shouldn't exist, is constantly stealing Ukrainian artifacts from Museums and bombing the rest of them indiscriminately and saying they should be wiped of the earth as less evil than what Israel is doing? Fuck you
Wow, you're incredibly naive or psychopathic in taking sides.
Russia wants to destroy the nation state of Ukraine, including its cultural identity, but when it comes to the actual Ukranians, he wants them to become Russian (obviously under his boot), not dead or expelled.
Israel wants to destroy or expel the Palestenians, not the culture (which they long ago crusehed), the actual people - it's not by chance there are Israeli cabinet members talking about nuking Gaza and a second Nakba and that Israel itself internally even set up an Appartheid state with a Jewish Israeli Citizenship separate from Arab Israeli Citizenship, the former with more rights than the latter in order to make sure the few Arabs that remained in Israel proper were second class citizens.
(Shit, the few nutters in the Russian parliament talking about using nukes wanted to use them on military targets, not actual cities)
As Evil goes, actual hate for people is way beyond "mere" imperialism and is far more murderous, which is why in a month Israel has killed more Palestinian civilians than Russia killed Ukranian ones in two years, even though there are way more Ukranians than Gazans.
The peak evildoing of Russia is kidnapping children to make them russians, the peak evildoing of Israel is knowingly murdering them by the thousands.
For all his sociopathic nastiness, the cold calculating shit that Putin does and how far even he will go, is nowhere near the kind of thing the Israeli sociopaths powered by religious and racist zeal do and will go to if allowed - historically in the scales of evildoing nothing beats racists who have wrapped their ideology with religious zeal.
You are the naive one. There have been over 500K casualties in Ukraine. Way more than Gaza and will probably double by the time it's all over
The peak evil doing is bombing cities indiscriminately just like Israel is doing. Saying the worst they are doing is kidnapping is really downplaying all the war crimes that happen
It should be clear by now that I'm in no way supporting what Russia is doing.
My point is not that it's not evil, it's that it can be worse, much much worse - when the sociopaths have free reign to do what they want, the Hate + Greed motivation almost always produces something worse than Greed alone as a motivation.
(You don't even need to go all that much back in History to see it: look at the massacre in Rwanda)
That's fine. Your original point was that "you can't trust them even at the level of Russia" and I'm giving you proof that no, you can trust them at the level of Russia or even more, because at least they have to answer to the West while Russia just answers to Putin, Iran, NK and China.
They're bombing UN schools and already killed over 4000 children and yet Germany just reafirmed their support for Israel whilst the US still have 2 aircraft carriers there to support them in case of need and keeps blocking with a veto any UN resolutions against the actions of Israel.
De facto the Israeli government does not have to answer to the West, otherwise they would be getting sanctions by now just like Russia quickly got, not reafirmations of unwavering support, diplomatic coverage at the UN and military support.
It'ss yet another interesting constrast with the Ukraine situation: the actions of Western "leaders" towards Russia for invading a neighbouring nation and murdering civilians - sanctions, which kept increasing) are in huge constrast to their actions towards Israel for occupying Palestine and their entirelly disproportionate reaction with no care for civilian human life - mild words of criticism alongside continued diplomatic and even military support in direct opposition to even their with-a-wink-and-a-not "criticism".
If there is one thing this has shown is that whatever drove most Western "leaders" actions and words when it came to Russia wasn't at all humanitarian reasons, otherwise they would be acting just as hard now to stop a genocide where in 1 month civilian deads have already exceed in 2 years of civilian deaths at the hands of Russia, as they did quickly towards Russia.
No - at least Germany, Britain, France and the US are playing the 2-weights-2-measures game and clearly they have no problem with Fascists being Fascist as long they're "allies" and their problem with Russia was entirelly it's geopolitical alignment, not its murdering ways.
FTFY: You mean when Bibi said that Gaza shouldn’t exist and that Palestinian culture shouldn’t exist.
Bibi Netanyahu saying “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass’," .
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant called residents of Gaza, about half of whom are children, “human animals” as he ordered a “complete siege” on the enclave including a total blockade of food, fuel, and electricity.
Former military officer Eliyahu Yossian said the IDF must enter Gaza “with the aim of revenge, zero morality, maximum corpses,” and told Channel 14 in Israel last Monday that “there is no population in Gaza, there are 2.5 million terrorists.”
Earlier this year, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said at an event in Paris, “There’s no such thing as Palestinians because there’s no such thing as a Palestinian people.” He also said the West Bank town of Huwara should be “wiped out” by “the state of Israel,” while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a map of what he called “The New Middle East”—without the illegally occupied West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem—at the United Nations General Assembly just weeks before the onslaught in Gaza began.
Fuck you for only looking at one side and being blind to the genocide you are defending.
I mean, as soon as the US decided to withholds its information on the matter we already knew the answer.
Israel is a bunch of lying shitbags. Can't trust them anymore than Russia.
Agreed. If the us had proof they would share in an instant
You can't trust them even at the level of Russia.
The Russians aren't anywhere as racist towards Ukranians as the Israelis are towards Arabs in general and Palestinians specifically.
Imperialist motivations are bad enough, but add rabid racism on top of those and it's a far darker monster that will casually do far darker deeds.
You mean when Putin said that Ukraine shouldn't exist and that Ukrainian culture shouldn't exist, is constantly stealing Ukrainian artifacts from Museums and bombing the rest of them indiscriminately and saying they should be wiped of the earth as less evil than what Israel is doing? Fuck you
Wow, you're incredibly naive or psychopathic in taking sides.
Russia wants to destroy the nation state of Ukraine, including its cultural identity, but when it comes to the actual Ukranians, he wants them to become Russian (obviously under his boot), not dead or expelled.
Israel wants to destroy or expel the Palestenians, not the culture (which they long ago crusehed), the actual people - it's not by chance there are Israeli cabinet members talking about nuking Gaza and a second Nakba and that Israel itself internally even set up an Appartheid state with a Jewish Israeli Citizenship separate from Arab Israeli Citizenship, the former with more rights than the latter in order to make sure the few Arabs that remained in Israel proper were second class citizens.
(Shit, the few nutters in the Russian parliament talking about using nukes wanted to use them on military targets, not actual cities)
As Evil goes, actual hate for people is way beyond "mere" imperialism and is far more murderous, which is why in a month Israel has killed more Palestinian civilians than Russia killed Ukranian ones in two years, even though there are way more Ukranians than Gazans.
The peak evildoing of Russia is kidnapping children to make them russians, the peak evildoing of Israel is knowingly murdering them by the thousands.
For all his sociopathic nastiness, the cold calculating shit that Putin does and how far even he will go, is nowhere near the kind of thing the Israeli sociopaths powered by religious and racist zeal do and will go to if allowed - historically in the scales of evildoing nothing beats racists who have wrapped their ideology with religious zeal.
You are the naive one. There have been over 500K casualties in Ukraine. Way more than Gaza and will probably double by the time it's all over
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=Casualties%20in%20the%20Russo%2DUkrainian,2022%20Russian%20invasion%20of%20Ukraine.
The peak evil doing is bombing cities indiscriminately just like Israel is doing. Saying the worst they are doing is kidnapping is really downplaying all the war crimes that happen
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_hospital_airstrike
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/3/24/who-says-64-hospitals-attacked-since-russia-invasion-of-ukraine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Abduction_and_deportation
Including.. Genocide
Should I keep going?
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/03/war-crimes-indiscriminate-attacks-infrastructure-systematic-and-widespread
It should be clear by now that I'm in no way supporting what Russia is doing.
My point is not that it's not evil, it's that it can be worse, much much worse - when the sociopaths have free reign to do what they want, the Hate + Greed motivation almost always produces something worse than Greed alone as a motivation.
(You don't even need to go all that much back in History to see it: look at the massacre in Rwanda)
That's fine. Your original point was that "you can't trust them even at the level of Russia" and I'm giving you proof that no, you can trust them at the level of Russia or even more, because at least they have to answer to the West while Russia just answers to Putin, Iran, NK and China.
They're bombing UN schools and already killed over 4000 children and yet Germany just reafirmed their support for Israel whilst the US still have 2 aircraft carriers there to support them in case of need and keeps blocking with a veto any UN resolutions against the actions of Israel.
De facto the Israeli government does not have to answer to the West, otherwise they would be getting sanctions by now just like Russia quickly got, not reafirmations of unwavering support, diplomatic coverage at the UN and military support.
It'ss yet another interesting constrast with the Ukraine situation: the actions of Western "leaders" towards Russia for invading a neighbouring nation and murdering civilians - sanctions, which kept increasing) are in huge constrast to their actions towards Israel for occupying Palestine and their entirelly disproportionate reaction with no care for civilian human life - mild words of criticism alongside continued diplomatic and even military support in direct opposition to even their with-a-wink-and-a-not "criticism".
If there is one thing this has shown is that whatever drove most Western "leaders" actions and words when it came to Russia wasn't at all humanitarian reasons, otherwise they would be acting just as hard now to stop a genocide where in 1 month civilian deads have already exceed in 2 years of civilian deaths at the hands of Russia, as they did quickly towards Russia.
No - at least Germany, Britain, France and the US are playing the 2-weights-2-measures game and clearly they have no problem with Fascists being Fascist as long they're "allies" and their problem with Russia was entirelly it's geopolitical alignment, not its murdering ways.
FTFY: You mean when Bibi said that Gaza shouldn’t exist and that Palestinian culture shouldn’t exist.
Bibi Netanyahu saying “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass’," .
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant called residents of Gaza, about half of whom are children, “human animals” as he ordered a “complete siege” on the enclave including a total blockade of food, fuel, and electricity.
Former military officer Eliyahu Yossian said the IDF must enter Gaza “with the aim of revenge, zero morality, maximum corpses,” and told Channel 14 in Israel last Monday that “there is no population in Gaza, there are 2.5 million terrorists.”
Earlier this year, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said at an event in Paris, “There’s no such thing as Palestinians because there’s no such thing as a Palestinian people.” He also said the West Bank town of Huwara should be “wiped out” by “the state of Israel,” while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a map of what he called “The New Middle East”—without the illegally occupied West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem—at the United Nations General Assembly just weeks before the onslaught in Gaza began.
Fuck you for only looking at one side and being blind to the genocide you are defending.