That is an interesting way of saying weapons were planted.
They sue newspapers and media that say anything unfavourable about them. That's why BBC and other outlets are being super careful what and how they word shit.
A part of that 14 billion is going to propaganda and lawyers to sway public opinion.
Is there any coverage on lawsuits like that?
The video suggested that they coulda mighta maybe planted evidence to disguise war crimes.
I only saw a couple old rifles. Is that a terrorist control node? I bet American hospitals have more guns.
Random rope under a chair? Must be used to tie hostage. Baby bottle on top of WHO box inside a hospital? Believe it or not, hostage.
Calendar? Hostage.
God I hope they track down Monday and kill that terrorist son of a bitch.
Fuck you monday, you weekend ruining cunt
I think everyone on both sides can agree that Monday needs to be hunted down like the Amalekites Bibi was talking about.
Whether the hospital was used as a base or not, presumably Hamas would take as much of their stuff out of it as possible when they retreated from it.
My neighbor probably has more guns.
Be skeptical of everything since it has increasingly become clear that propaganda is what will win this war.
But this is not an NCIS investigation. Weapons and evidence need to be checked for booby traps and reporters can't show pictures of mutilated corpses on the front page. Of course things will be rearranged.
From what I have seen so far it doesn't really matter if it was arranged. There just isn't much evidence of a command center. Sure there may have been a few AKs and a tunnel but that's hardly a command center.
It's not just rearranged, it's different stuff.
I liked the part in the IDF released video where they explicitly say it's a one shot no edits video and make a big deal of it.. until the obvious edit a little over 6 mins in...
I mean, as soon as the US decided to withholds its information on the matter we already knew the answer.
Israel is a bunch of lying shitbags. Can't trust them anymore than Russia.
Agreed. If the us had proof they would share in an instant
You can't trust them even at the level of Russia.
The Russians aren't anywhere as racist towards Ukranians as the Israelis are towards Arabs in general and Palestinians specifically.
Imperialist motivations are bad enough, but add rabid racism on top of those and it's a far darker monster that will casually do far darker deeds.
You mean when Putin said that Ukraine shouldn't exist and that Ukrainian culture shouldn't exist, is constantly stealing Ukrainian artifacts from Museums and bombing the rest of them indiscriminately and saying they should be wiped of the earth as less evil than what Israel is doing? Fuck you
Wow, you're incredibly naive or psychopathic in taking sides.
Russia wants to destroy the nation state of Ukraine, including its cultural identity, but when it comes to the actual Ukranians, he wants them to become Russian (obviously under his boot), not dead or expelled.
Israel wants to destroy or expel the Palestenians, not the culture (which they long ago crusehed), the actual people - it's not by chance there are Israeli cabinet members talking about nuking Gaza and a second Nakba and that Israel itself internally even set up an Appartheid state with a Jewish Israeli Citizenship separate from Arab Israeli Citizenship, the former with more rights than the latter in order to make sure the few Arabs that remained in Israel proper were second class citizens.
(Shit, the few nutters in the Russian parliament talking about using nukes wanted to use them on military targets, not actual cities)
As Evil goes, actual hate for people is way beyond "mere" imperialism and is far more murderous, which is why in a month Israel has killed more Palestinian civilians than Russia killed Ukranian ones in two years, even though there are way more Ukranians than Gazans.
The peak evildoing of Russia is kidnapping children to make them russians, the peak evildoing of Israel is knowingly murdering them by the thousands.
For all his sociopathic nastiness, the cold calculating shit that Putin does and how far even he will go, is nowhere near the kind of thing the Israeli sociopaths powered by religious and racist zeal do and will go to if allowed - historically in the scales of evildoing nothing beats racists who have wrapped their ideology with religious zeal.
You are the naive one. There have been over 500K casualties in Ukraine. Way more than Gaza and will probably double by the time it's all over
The peak evil doing is bombing cities indiscriminately just like Israel is doing. Saying the worst they are doing is kidnapping is really downplaying all the war crimes that happen
It should be clear by now that I'm in no way supporting what Russia is doing.
My point is not that it's not evil, it's that it can be worse, much much worse - when the sociopaths have free reign to do what they want, the Hate + Greed motivation almost always produces something worse than Greed alone as a motivation.
(You don't even need to go all that much back in History to see it: look at the massacre in Rwanda)
That's fine. Your original point was that "you can't trust them even at the level of Russia" and I'm giving you proof that no, you can trust them at the level of Russia or even more, because at least they have to answer to the West while Russia just answers to Putin, Iran, NK and China.
They're bombing UN schools and already killed over 4000 children and yet Germany just reafirmed their support for Israel whilst the US still have 2 aircraft carriers there to support them in case of need and keeps blocking with a veto any UN resolutions against the actions of Israel.
De facto the Israeli government does not have to answer to the West, otherwise they would be getting sanctions by now just like Russia quickly got, not reafirmations of unwavering support, diplomatic coverage at the UN and military support.
It'ss yet another interesting constrast with the Ukraine situation: the actions of Western "leaders" towards Russia for invading a neighbouring nation and murdering civilians - sanctions, which kept increasing) are in huge constrast to their actions towards Israel for occupying Palestine and their entirelly disproportionate reaction with no care for civilian human life - mild words of criticism alongside continued diplomatic and even military support in direct opposition to even their with-a-wink-and-a-not "criticism".
If there is one thing this has shown is that whatever drove most Western "leaders" actions and words when it came to Russia wasn't at all humanitarian reasons, otherwise they would be acting just as hard now to stop a genocide where in 1 month civilian deads have already exceed in 2 years of civilian deaths at the hands of Russia, as they did quickly towards Russia.
No - at least Germany, Britain, France and the US are playing the 2-weights-2-measures game and clearly they have no problem with Fascists being Fascist as long they're "allies" and their problem with Russia was entirelly it's geopolitical alignment, not its murdering ways.
FTFY: You mean when Bibi said that Gaza shouldnāt exist and that Palestinian culture shouldnāt exist.
Bibi Netanyahu saying āYou must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 āNow go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and assā," .
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant called residents of Gaza, about half of whom are children, āhuman animalsā as he ordered a ācomplete siegeā on the enclave including a total blockade of food, fuel, and electricity.
Former military officer Eliyahu Yossian said the IDF must enter Gaza āwith the aim of revenge, zero morality, maximum corpses,ā and told Channel 14 in Israel last Monday that āthere is no population in Gaza, there are 2.5 million terrorists.ā
Earlier this year, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said at an event in Paris, āThereās no such thing as Palestinians because thereās no such thing as a Palestinian people.ā He also said the West Bank town of Huwara should be āwiped outā by āthe state of Israel,ā while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a map of what he called āThe New Middle Eastāāwithout the illegally occupied West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalemāat the United Nations General Assembly just weeks before the onslaught in Gaza began.
Fuck you for only looking at one side and being blind to the genocide you are defending.
Al-Shifa lost power, what, 5 days ago? Prior to that, the MRI machine would presumably have been on. Anyone with ANY experience in a hospital should know that MRI machines and metals (like guns, ammunition) REALLY don't mix.
Yes and no. MRI's require large amounts of cryogens (LN2, LHe) which would likely be impossible to get during the siege. The magnets likely quenched well before.
Don't those cryogens only boil off in significant quantities of the machine can't get power?
Like, isn't that the whole reason MRI machines are never turned off?
The cryogens boil off at a pretty consistent rate no matter what, but the recovery/recompression systems do require power. So once power is cut, any boil off isnāt recovered.
Superconducting magnets (like in MRIs) can run effectively forever when at the right temperature. Turning them off requires a complex process of draining off that current slowly and carefully so that the magnet isnāt damaged. Hard to do on a normal day, and profoundly harder if thereās no power.
Ahh, makes sense. That's so cool! Do you know what kind of priority a hospital would have if they were to ration electricity? Would an MRI machine be high on that list?
Probably first on the "turn this off" list, its ultimately a diagnostic tool and when it comes to rationing power life support equipment has first priority. Its an insanely power hungry device and shutting it off could let you run dozens of ventilators etc.
So, does that make it primarily useful for if the hospital is looking to do surgery?
IIRC al-Shifa was still doing complicated surgeries really late into the conflict.
Not necessarily, an MRI is great to have but not necessary to carry out surgery, while something like ventilation absolutely is.
Power usage of an MRI machine is pretty mega, it'd be hugely wasteful to prioritise running it vs even just keeping fuel in reserve.
No idea, but if it were up to me Iād spend that rationed power on ventilators and such keeping patients alive. Losing cryogens stinks, but you can top them off without any power as long as you have stock or deliveries. And Iād rather a magnet quench than have to explain to a dead personās family that their loved oneās life was less valuable than some helium and a chunk of ceramic.
Weren't they still doing surgeries at al-Shifa up until the power went out? I'd imagine that an MRI might be useful for diagnosing issues prior to surgery...
Beats me. Iām just a chemist who managed my facilityās NMR magnets (built like MRIs but with different electronics for chemical analysis) for a few years. We had to pull some stunts to keep those magnets alive sometimes, but it was always a matter of how soon, not if, a shipment of cryogens would arrive. Canāt imagine trying to keep MRIs from quenching in a war zone.
Also, telecoms have been down since last Wednesday. I'm telling you, IDF has bulldozers and no one independent to verify what they're really doing or 'finding' there. I wouldn't put it past them to dig the tunnels themselves. And they'd still manage to fuck up.
Perception is key, they've built this image of being ultra smart and tech savvy etc... Nope, all gone now.
But but but I saw the IDF drop of a stack of random legal file boxes with taped on print outs that said in English "Medical Supplies"! They're the good guys!
Printed on all 6 sides of the box, no less. And they were using super soldiers to lift them.... or maybe the boxes were empty. Hard to tell.
Just sprinkle some Hamas on 'em. Open and shut case.
I'm just waiting for the mist of war to be over to see the actual truth. No proof can be verified now, and no actual real proof would be trusted by left media coverage. No information will be shown for the coming days.
Just wait a few weeks then actually form an opinion on whether or not this war is justified, since without confidential information, nobody but Hamas, the U.S, and Israel knows.
The IDF made a video. You can go watch it if you want. If they weren't making shit up about the tunnel system and command post under the hospital, they would have shown it. They made a show about I think less than 20 rifles. There are a significant number of US households with more rifles than that. They'd show anything that made it look better if it existed.
Don't forget the WD40. Highly suspicious WD40 I might add. Highly suspicious. WD40.
That is an interesting way of saying weapons were planted.
They sue newspapers and media that say anything unfavourable about them. That's why BBC and other outlets are being super careful what and how they word shit.
A part of that 14 billion is going to propaganda and lawyers to sway public opinion.
Is there any coverage on lawsuits like that?
The video suggested that they coulda mighta maybe planted evidence to disguise war crimes.
From seed or from sapling?
I only saw a couple old rifles. Is that a terrorist control node? I bet American hospitals have more guns.
Random rope under a chair? Must be used to tie hostage. Baby bottle on top of WHO box inside a hospital? Believe it or not, hostage.
Calendar? Hostage.
God I hope they track down Monday and kill that terrorist son of a bitch.
Fuck you monday, you weekend ruining cunt
I think everyone on both sides can agree that Monday needs to be hunted down like the Amalekites Bibi was talking about.
Whether the hospital was used as a base or not, presumably Hamas would take as much of their stuff out of it as possible when they retreated from it.
My neighbor probably has more guns.
Be skeptical of everything since it has increasingly become clear that propaganda is what will win this war.
But this is not an NCIS investigation. Weapons and evidence need to be checked for booby traps and reporters can't show pictures of mutilated corpses on the front page. Of course things will be rearranged.
From what I have seen so far it doesn't really matter if it was arranged. There just isn't much evidence of a command center. Sure there may have been a few AKs and a tunnel but that's hardly a command center.
It's not just rearranged, it's different stuff.
I liked the part in the IDF released video where they explicitly say it's a one shot no edits video and make a big deal of it.. until the obvious edit a little over 6 mins in...
I mean, as soon as the US decided to withholds its information on the matter we already knew the answer.
Israel is a bunch of lying shitbags. Can't trust them anymore than Russia.
Agreed. If the us had proof they would share in an instant
You can't trust them even at the level of Russia.
The Russians aren't anywhere as racist towards Ukranians as the Israelis are towards Arabs in general and Palestinians specifically.
Imperialist motivations are bad enough, but add rabid racism on top of those and it's a far darker monster that will casually do far darker deeds.
You mean when Putin said that Ukraine shouldn't exist and that Ukrainian culture shouldn't exist, is constantly stealing Ukrainian artifacts from Museums and bombing the rest of them indiscriminately and saying they should be wiped of the earth as less evil than what Israel is doing? Fuck you
Wow, you're incredibly naive or psychopathic in taking sides.
Russia wants to destroy the nation state of Ukraine, including its cultural identity, but when it comes to the actual Ukranians, he wants them to become Russian (obviously under his boot), not dead or expelled.
Israel wants to destroy or expel the Palestenians, not the culture (which they long ago crusehed), the actual people - it's not by chance there are Israeli cabinet members talking about nuking Gaza and a second Nakba and that Israel itself internally even set up an Appartheid state with a Jewish Israeli Citizenship separate from Arab Israeli Citizenship, the former with more rights than the latter in order to make sure the few Arabs that remained in Israel proper were second class citizens.
(Shit, the few nutters in the Russian parliament talking about using nukes wanted to use them on military targets, not actual cities)
As Evil goes, actual hate for people is way beyond "mere" imperialism and is far more murderous, which is why in a month Israel has killed more Palestinian civilians than Russia killed Ukranian ones in two years, even though there are way more Ukranians than Gazans.
The peak evildoing of Russia is kidnapping children to make them russians, the peak evildoing of Israel is knowingly murdering them by the thousands.
For all his sociopathic nastiness, the cold calculating shit that Putin does and how far even he will go, is nowhere near the kind of thing the Israeli sociopaths powered by religious and racist zeal do and will go to if allowed - historically in the scales of evildoing nothing beats racists who have wrapped their ideology with religious zeal.
You are the naive one. There have been over 500K casualties in Ukraine. Way more than Gaza and will probably double by the time it's all over
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=Casualties%20in%20the%20Russo%2DUkrainian,2022%20Russian%20invasion%20of%20Ukraine.
The peak evil doing is bombing cities indiscriminately just like Israel is doing. Saying the worst they are doing is kidnapping is really downplaying all the war crimes that happen
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_hospital_airstrike
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/3/24/who-says-64-hospitals-attacked-since-russia-invasion-of-ukraine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Abduction_and_deportation
Including.. Genocide
Should I keep going?
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/03/war-crimes-indiscriminate-attacks-infrastructure-systematic-and-widespread
It should be clear by now that I'm in no way supporting what Russia is doing.
My point is not that it's not evil, it's that it can be worse, much much worse - when the sociopaths have free reign to do what they want, the Hate + Greed motivation almost always produces something worse than Greed alone as a motivation.
(You don't even need to go all that much back in History to see it: look at the massacre in Rwanda)
That's fine. Your original point was that "you can't trust them even at the level of Russia" and I'm giving you proof that no, you can trust them at the level of Russia or even more, because at least they have to answer to the West while Russia just answers to Putin, Iran, NK and China.
They're bombing UN schools and already killed over 4000 children and yet Germany just reafirmed their support for Israel whilst the US still have 2 aircraft carriers there to support them in case of need and keeps blocking with a veto any UN resolutions against the actions of Israel.
De facto the Israeli government does not have to answer to the West, otherwise they would be getting sanctions by now just like Russia quickly got, not reafirmations of unwavering support, diplomatic coverage at the UN and military support.
It'ss yet another interesting constrast with the Ukraine situation: the actions of Western "leaders" towards Russia for invading a neighbouring nation and murdering civilians - sanctions, which kept increasing) are in huge constrast to their actions towards Israel for occupying Palestine and their entirelly disproportionate reaction with no care for civilian human life - mild words of criticism alongside continued diplomatic and even military support in direct opposition to even their with-a-wink-and-a-not "criticism".
If there is one thing this has shown is that whatever drove most Western "leaders" actions and words when it came to Russia wasn't at all humanitarian reasons, otherwise they would be acting just as hard now to stop a genocide where in 1 month civilian deads have already exceed in 2 years of civilian deaths at the hands of Russia, as they did quickly towards Russia.
No - at least Germany, Britain, France and the US are playing the 2-weights-2-measures game and clearly they have no problem with Fascists being Fascist as long they're "allies" and their problem with Russia was entirelly it's geopolitical alignment, not its murdering ways.
FTFY: You mean when Bibi said that Gaza shouldnāt exist and that Palestinian culture shouldnāt exist.
Bibi Netanyahu saying āYou must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 āNow go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and assā," .
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant called residents of Gaza, about half of whom are children, āhuman animalsā as he ordered a ācomplete siegeā on the enclave including a total blockade of food, fuel, and electricity.
Former military officer Eliyahu Yossian said the IDF must enter Gaza āwith the aim of revenge, zero morality, maximum corpses,ā and told Channel 14 in Israel last Monday that āthere is no population in Gaza, there are 2.5 million terrorists.ā
Earlier this year, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said at an event in Paris, āThereās no such thing as Palestinians because thereās no such thing as a Palestinian people.ā He also said the West Bank town of Huwara should be āwiped outā by āthe state of Israel,ā while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a map of what he called āThe New Middle Eastāāwithout the illegally occupied West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalemāat the United Nations General Assembly just weeks before the onslaught in Gaza began.
Fuck you for only looking at one side and being blind to the genocide you are defending.
Al-Shifa lost power, what, 5 days ago? Prior to that, the MRI machine would presumably have been on. Anyone with ANY experience in a hospital should know that MRI machines and metals (like guns, ammunition) REALLY don't mix.
Yes and no. MRI's require large amounts of cryogens (LN2, LHe) which would likely be impossible to get during the siege. The magnets likely quenched well before.
Don't those cryogens only boil off in significant quantities of the machine can't get power?
Like, isn't that the whole reason MRI machines are never turned off?
The cryogens boil off at a pretty consistent rate no matter what, but the recovery/recompression systems do require power. So once power is cut, any boil off isnāt recovered.
Superconducting magnets (like in MRIs) can run effectively forever when at the right temperature. Turning them off requires a complex process of draining off that current slowly and carefully so that the magnet isnāt damaged. Hard to do on a normal day, and profoundly harder if thereās no power.
Ahh, makes sense. That's so cool! Do you know what kind of priority a hospital would have if they were to ration electricity? Would an MRI machine be high on that list?
Probably first on the "turn this off" list, its ultimately a diagnostic tool and when it comes to rationing power life support equipment has first priority. Its an insanely power hungry device and shutting it off could let you run dozens of ventilators etc.
So, does that make it primarily useful for if the hospital is looking to do surgery?
IIRC al-Shifa was still doing complicated surgeries really late into the conflict.
Not necessarily, an MRI is great to have but not necessary to carry out surgery, while something like ventilation absolutely is.
Power usage of an MRI machine is pretty mega, it'd be hugely wasteful to prioritise running it vs even just keeping fuel in reserve.
No idea, but if it were up to me Iād spend that rationed power on ventilators and such keeping patients alive. Losing cryogens stinks, but you can top them off without any power as long as you have stock or deliveries. And Iād rather a magnet quench than have to explain to a dead personās family that their loved oneās life was less valuable than some helium and a chunk of ceramic.
Weren't they still doing surgeries at al-Shifa up until the power went out? I'd imagine that an MRI might be useful for diagnosing issues prior to surgery...
Beats me. Iām just a chemist who managed my facilityās NMR magnets (built like MRIs but with different electronics for chemical analysis) for a few years. We had to pull some stunts to keep those magnets alive sometimes, but it was always a matter of how soon, not if, a shipment of cryogens would arrive. Canāt imagine trying to keep MRIs from quenching in a war zone.
Also, telecoms have been down since last Wednesday. I'm telling you, IDF has bulldozers and no one independent to verify what they're really doing or 'finding' there. I wouldn't put it past them to dig the tunnels themselves. And they'd still manage to fuck up.
Perception is key, they've built this image of being ultra smart and tech savvy etc... Nope, all gone now.
But but but I saw the IDF drop of a stack of random legal file boxes with taped on print outs that said in English "Medical Supplies"! They're the good guys!
Printed on all 6 sides of the box, no less. And they were using super soldiers to lift them.... or maybe the boxes were empty. Hard to tell.
Just sprinkle some Hamas on 'em. Open and shut case.
I'm just waiting for the mist of war to be over to see the actual truth. No proof can be verified now, and no actual real proof would be trusted by left media coverage. No information will be shown for the coming days.
Just wait a few weeks then actually form an opinion on whether or not this war is justified, since without confidential information, nobody but Hamas, the U.S, and Israel knows.
The IDF made a video. You can go watch it if you want. If they weren't making shit up about the tunnel system and command post under the hospital, they would have shown it. They made a show about I think less than 20 rifles. There are a significant number of US households with more rifles than that. They'd show anything that made it look better if it existed.
Don't forget the WD40. Highly suspicious WD40 I might add. Highly suspicious. WD40.