As someone who voted third party in the 2016 election, take it from me that you will feel more guilty if you know your vote could have helped prevent the fascist party from gaining power. The presidency is not the office to try to vote on morals, save that for state and local elections that decide things like state benefits programs, distributions of funds, and public works. The federal government is where you will want to vote for the people who are protecting your right to vote in the first place, and that is done by ensuring that the fascist party can't get a majority or otherwise control a branch of the government.
If the Supreme Court were made up different, maybe, but ending up with an R president just gives them room to pack more courts and see a whole bunch more rights get removed.
As someone who voted third party in the 2016 election, take it from me that you will feel more guilty if you know your vote could have helped prevent the fascist party from gaining power.
As someone who voted for Clinton in 2016 but also supported Sanders in the primaries, take it from me that Clinton's supporters blame you no matter who you voted for.
That is true, but I am also proof that their stance was at least partially valid. I voted Bernie in the primary and voted third party against Clinton, and I was definitely not alone.
Again, whether actions are justified or understandable, to me, is not reason to excuse the real impacts that the election results had. It wasn't helped by the results for Congress, but no one can deny that the US would be in a much better spot now if Clinton had been president, regardless of who was in charge in Congress. I will continue to support leftists in primaries, and especially in my local and state elections, and I continue to do activist and monetary support as much as I am able. But I hate being told that I am abandoning my values simply because I am voting for the highest chance for fewer people to be harmed.
But I hate being told that I am abandoning my values simply because I am voting for the highest chance for fewer people to be harmed.
And I hate being blamed for the loss Clinton worked so hard to earn, despite voting for her. Particularly from the wing of the party that was like "Party Unity My Ass" in 2008. But that's not gonna make it quit happening.
As someone who voted third party in the 2016 election, take it from me that you will feel more guilty if you know your vote could have helped prevent the fascist party from gaining power.
Anyone who cared strongly enough on an issue to vote third party wouldn't feel this way.
Really? Because that issue was a combo of actual universal healthcare and climate goals. I voted for the only candidate who had a commitment to those goals. This was before it was revealed that this particular candidate had accepted a whole bunch of money from the RNC to remain in the race.
The result was enough people voted for that candidate that Trump won. The result of his win was that we saw even the half-measures that had been taken on these issues were stripped, setting us back potential decades because of new rules and packed courts who are now going against all precedent and decorum to prevent new leaders from enacting new policies. I voted for a few steps forward instead of half-steps, and got several steps back as a result.
Keep in mind that one of those several steps back was a gutting of voting rights, which is being continued by Trump appointed judges to this day. If you need to be a one-issue voter, vote to keep your right to vote by voting in a way that is most likely to prevent a Trump win. They literally already have a plan on how to remove and bar even more people from voting.
I've heard the same old sob story every 4 years my entire life. Liberals were screaming every time and if Trump wins in 24 our democracy will stay the same rigged false democracy that it is. Our only hope for concessions from the Democrats is to force them to gain our votes back by voting for the Green party. Otherwise you will get nothing with neoliberal ghouls you vote for.
If the number of people who died due to benefit cuts, throwing out the pandemic action plan, and direct actions from right wing terrorists who were emboldened by a president who values the speeches and actions of Hitler aren't enough to convince you of how much worse Trump was versus lib Dems, then you are missing the point of the values you claim to have. I support the values I do because they uphold human rights and save lives. What good are those values if my actions lead to the death and dehumanization of thousands, when another choice would have likely saved them?
If the number of people who died due to benefit cuts
You mean the Trump tax cuts Biden chose to keep? Or the child tax credit he let expire? Those right wingers are a minority and we need a strong left to oppose them, voting for center right Dems are not the way to fight back. If anything that only helps the right by not undoing their policy.
Nice cherry picking of two examples without sources, while completely ignoring all of the other things Biden did repeal. It also ignores the fact that those things were replaced with better projects that were less susceptible to repeals by future presidents.
Again, I am not saying to vote for all Dems across the board, just not in the Presidential election. I vote third party in my home state for state and local elections because my state (solid blue) is set up in a way that allows for a candidate presented by the third party to run as a Dem as well, allowing people to vote effectively for a party line that makes it clear what actions we want taken while not risking a regressive candidate being elected by a split vote. There are also several blue states that are enacting ranked choice voting, which is also being supported by even most moderate Dems.
You sure showed those neoliberals by voting for them
Everything I see talks about how that was directly tied to emergency spending that needed to be signed off on by Congress, and how Biden expanded it while it was in effect and is actively trying to get it renewed, with sources much more recent and detailed that that one.
But sure, it was Biden who single handedly stole that money from families, even when Congress makes the budget.
He's not trying, those are just puff pieces. I've not seen him go out of his way to pressure congress, and I've not seen him use his executive powers to help working class people either.
As someone who voted third party in the 2016 election, take it from me that you will feel more guilty if you know your vote could have helped prevent the fascist party from gaining power. The presidency is not the office to try to vote on morals, save that for state and local elections that decide things like state benefits programs, distributions of funds, and public works. The federal government is where you will want to vote for the people who are protecting your right to vote in the first place, and that is done by ensuring that the fascist party can't get a majority or otherwise control a branch of the government.
If the Supreme Court were made up different, maybe, but ending up with an R president just gives them room to pack more courts and see a whole bunch more rights get removed.
As someone who voted for Clinton in 2016 but also supported Sanders in the primaries, take it from me that Clinton's supporters blame you no matter who you voted for.
That is true, but I am also proof that their stance was at least partially valid. I voted Bernie in the primary and voted third party against Clinton, and I was definitely not alone.
Again, whether actions are justified or understandable, to me, is not reason to excuse the real impacts that the election results had. It wasn't helped by the results for Congress, but no one can deny that the US would be in a much better spot now if Clinton had been president, regardless of who was in charge in Congress. I will continue to support leftists in primaries, and especially in my local and state elections, and I continue to do activist and monetary support as much as I am able. But I hate being told that I am abandoning my values simply because I am voting for the highest chance for fewer people to be harmed.
And I hate being blamed for the loss Clinton worked so hard to earn, despite voting for her. Particularly from the wing of the party that was like "Party Unity My Ass" in 2008. But that's not gonna make it quit happening.
Anyone who cared strongly enough on an issue to vote third party wouldn't feel this way.
Really? Because that issue was a combo of actual universal healthcare and climate goals. I voted for the only candidate who had a commitment to those goals. This was before it was revealed that this particular candidate had accepted a whole bunch of money from the RNC to remain in the race.
The result was enough people voted for that candidate that Trump won. The result of his win was that we saw even the half-measures that had been taken on these issues were stripped, setting us back potential decades because of new rules and packed courts who are now going against all precedent and decorum to prevent new leaders from enacting new policies. I voted for a few steps forward instead of half-steps, and got several steps back as a result.
Keep in mind that one of those several steps back was a gutting of voting rights, which is being continued by Trump appointed judges to this day. If you need to be a one-issue voter, vote to keep your right to vote by voting in a way that is most likely to prevent a Trump win. They literally already have a plan on how to remove and bar even more people from voting.
I've heard the same old sob story every 4 years my entire life. Liberals were screaming every time and if Trump wins in 24 our democracy will stay the same rigged false democracy that it is. Our only hope for concessions from the Democrats is to force them to gain our votes back by voting for the Green party. Otherwise you will get nothing with neoliberal ghouls you vote for.
If the number of people who died due to benefit cuts, throwing out the pandemic action plan, and direct actions from right wing terrorists who were emboldened by a president who values the speeches and actions of Hitler aren't enough to convince you of how much worse Trump was versus lib Dems, then you are missing the point of the values you claim to have. I support the values I do because they uphold human rights and save lives. What good are those values if my actions lead to the death and dehumanization of thousands, when another choice would have likely saved them?
You mean the Trump tax cuts Biden chose to keep? Or the child tax credit he let expire? Those right wingers are a minority and we need a strong left to oppose them, voting for center right Dems are not the way to fight back. If anything that only helps the right by not undoing their policy.
Nice cherry picking of two examples without sources, while completely ignoring all of the other things Biden did repeal. It also ignores the fact that those things were replaced with better projects that were less susceptible to repeals by future presidents.
Again, I am not saying to vote for all Dems across the board, just not in the Presidential election. I vote third party in my home state for state and local elections because my state (solid blue) is set up in a way that allows for a candidate presented by the third party to run as a Dem as well, allowing people to vote effectively for a party line that makes it clear what actions we want taken while not risking a regressive candidate being elected by a split vote. There are also several blue states that are enacting ranked choice voting, which is also being supported by even most moderate Dems.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-law-biden-dem-pledges-sinema-manchin-2022-8 https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2023-01-03/child-tax-credit-expired-stimulus
You sure showed those neoliberals by voting for them
Everything I see talks about how that was directly tied to emergency spending that needed to be signed off on by Congress, and how Biden expanded it while it was in effect and is actively trying to get it renewed, with sources much more recent and detailed that that one.
For example:
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/10/bidens-budget-pushes-to-renew-bigger-child-tax-credit-for-families.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/08/01/revive-expanded-child-tax-credit-spending-figh/70480784007/
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/biden-state-of-the-union-2023/h_f3a389356f524ac0a87dc9d64fa1b97d
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/07/01/stimulus-update-child-tax-credit-baby-bonus/70363864007/
But sure, it was Biden who single handedly stole that money from families, even when Congress makes the budget.
He's not trying, those are just puff pieces. I've not seen him go out of his way to pressure congress, and I've not seen him use his executive powers to help working class people either.