So it's just lemmy basically wants Biden to win but doesn't know American politics well enough to know that stopping supporting Israel would likely tank Biden's chances in the election?
No, because it's super disingenuous to criticize Biden on it like Trump wouldn't be way worse. We know Trump will yank all the funding from Ukraine and hand it over to Isreal. Sure Biden sucks, but like every other conversation on the subject, he's better than the other option so we have to begrudgingly support him. The last time we tried to disagree with someone morally was Hillary and we spent 4 years dealing with Trump. If my options are 1 guy who opposes 1 genocide and 1 guy who supports 2 then I guess I'll pick the guy opposing one. I'd rather have no genocides, but here we are
No, because it's super disingenuous to criticize Biden on it like Trump wouldn't be way worse.
Yeah, this is my basic problem with Lemmy on this. Biden's actions are largely the result of American political realities and trump would be way worse. Dangerously so.
Surely just because someone else would be worse, doesn't mean you can't criticize the current leader. That's a very slippery slope if you go down that path.
Sure but that's our point. We can sit here discussing the minutia of Biden and what little things he may or may not be doing correctly, meanwhile Trump supporters hear him say "I'll be a dictator day 1" and get a boner so hard they need to call their doctor. We made this mistake by being balanced about our candidate before and we saw where it got us. I'd like to hear you suggest a realistically better choice for the average American than to support Biden continuing to be milquetoast
I don't have an answer for you on that (non-US), but if the plan is to pretend the current leader makes no mistakes because the opposition is worse.. that's not going to be pretty 10 years down the track. Granted, I appreciate that alternative now is also not pretty.
Again I understand and agree with you, but I ask: what do you suggest as a realistic alternative?
My suggestion is there needs to be some serious cultural and political change before America shits the bed and becomes a fucking hot mess. Now whether that is realistic is something completely different.
The fact were in 2024 and half of your country is effectively promoting rape and refusing care for 50% of your population (females) is absolutely wild to me. So I don't know your culture enough to provide a realistic alternative. But coming from a country that sees America as an Ally, I hope the country gets its shit together sooner rather than later.
No, because it's super disingenuous to criticize Biden on it like Trump wouldn't be way worse.
A very "you're with us or against us" mentality
I won't claim to speak for "Lemmy." It's not a monolith. For myself, I wish the US would stop supporting Israel just like they've done for decades, because Likud is clearly full of bloodthirsty monsters, and whatever bloodthirsty monsters do also exist among Hamas, the IDF is doing most of the killing, and we're actively arming them. Of course that doesn't mean I want the apocalyptic nightmare that would be a second Trump presidency; among other reasons because it would usher in lots and lots more suffering similar to what's currently going on in Gaza.
I think to the extent Lemmy's thinking on it is defined as a single hivemind, they just like being super-leftist which means supporting innocent people who are on the losing end of violent geopolitics, and shitting on corporate candidates which broadly speaking includes Biden, and so that means they're giving Biden hell about Gaza. Which, I won't tell them they're wrong to give him hell. But, if that helps Trump win, they definitely won't be happy with that outcome, and yelling about how it's not their fault definitely won't do them any good when abortions are banned nationwide, Hispanics and trans people are treated like mid-1930s Jews, and their social media is monitored by properly-politically-minded censors backed by punishment of prison. That is the type of best case short-term outcome we could hope for. You may think I'm joking but I am absolutely not.
So it's just lemmy basically wants Biden to win but doesn't know American politics well enough to know that stopping supporting Israel would likely tank Biden's chances in the election?
No, because it's super disingenuous to criticize Biden on it like Trump wouldn't be way worse. We know Trump will yank all the funding from Ukraine and hand it over to Isreal. Sure Biden sucks, but like every other conversation on the subject, he's better than the other option so we have to begrudgingly support him. The last time we tried to disagree with someone morally was Hillary and we spent 4 years dealing with Trump. If my options are 1 guy who opposes 1 genocide and 1 guy who supports 2 then I guess I'll pick the guy opposing one. I'd rather have no genocides, but here we are
Yeah, this is my basic problem with Lemmy on this. Biden's actions are largely the result of American political realities and trump would be way worse. Dangerously so.
Surely just because someone else would be worse, doesn't mean you can't criticize the current leader. That's a very slippery slope if you go down that path.
Sure but that's our point. We can sit here discussing the minutia of Biden and what little things he may or may not be doing correctly, meanwhile Trump supporters hear him say "I'll be a dictator day 1" and get a boner so hard they need to call their doctor. We made this mistake by being balanced about our candidate before and we saw where it got us. I'd like to hear you suggest a realistically better choice for the average American than to support Biden continuing to be milquetoast
I don't have an answer for you on that (non-US), but if the plan is to pretend the current leader makes no mistakes because the opposition is worse.. that's not going to be pretty 10 years down the track. Granted, I appreciate that alternative now is also not pretty.
Again I understand and agree with you, but I ask: what do you suggest as a realistic alternative?
My suggestion is there needs to be some serious cultural and political change before America shits the bed and becomes a fucking hot mess. Now whether that is realistic is something completely different.
The fact were in 2024 and half of your country is effectively promoting rape and refusing care for 50% of your population (females) is absolutely wild to me. So I don't know your culture enough to provide a realistic alternative. But coming from a country that sees America as an Ally, I hope the country gets its shit together sooner rather than later.
A very "you're with us or against us" mentality
I won't claim to speak for "Lemmy." It's not a monolith. For myself, I wish the US would stop supporting Israel just like they've done for decades, because Likud is clearly full of bloodthirsty monsters, and whatever bloodthirsty monsters do also exist among Hamas, the IDF is doing most of the killing, and we're actively arming them. Of course that doesn't mean I want the apocalyptic nightmare that would be a second Trump presidency; among other reasons because it would usher in lots and lots more suffering similar to what's currently going on in Gaza.
I think to the extent Lemmy's thinking on it is defined as a single hivemind, they just like being super-leftist which means supporting innocent people who are on the losing end of violent geopolitics, and shitting on corporate candidates which broadly speaking includes Biden, and so that means they're giving Biden hell about Gaza. Which, I won't tell them they're wrong to give him hell. But, if that helps Trump win, they definitely won't be happy with that outcome, and yelling about how it's not their fault definitely won't do them any good when abortions are banned nationwide, Hispanics and trans people are treated like mid-1930s Jews, and their social media is monitored by properly-politically-minded censors backed by punishment of prison. That is the type of best case short-term outcome we could hope for. You may think I'm joking but I am absolutely not.