Revealed: documents shed light on shadowy US far-right fraternal order

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theguardian.com

New documents detail inner workings of Society for American Civic Renewal, group with an emphasis on Christian nationalism

New documents have shed light on the origins and inner workings of the shadowy Society for American Civic Renewal (SACR), including methods for judging the beliefs of potential members on topics such as Christian nationalism, and indications that its founders sought inspiration in an apartheid-era South African white men-only group, the Afrikaner-Broederbond.

They also show that Boise State University Professor and Claremont thinktank scholar Scott Yenor tried to coordinate SACR’s activities with other initiatives, including an open letter on “Christian marriage”.

One expert says that one of the new documents – some previously reported in Talking Points Memo – use biblical references that suggest a preparedness for violent struggle against the current “regime”.

The SACR is a secretive far-right men-only organization with an emphasis on Christian nationalism and a desire to open branches across the US.

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The Handmaid’s Tale sounds practically prophetic with some of this stuff. I guess the peeps could be heard back in the 80s for some of these “Christian nationalist” groups.

Let’s call it what it is, they take Christianity and make it their calling card but follow very few, if any, of the actual calls or teachings of Christ. They want to attach to something which has meaning to validate and give authenticity to a meaningless, and destructive, endeavor.

Nah it goes back much further than the 80's, when we're on the topic of the age of American Christian Nationalism I like to break out the only Barry Goldwater quotes I know, the first of which was said in the 60's:

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.

Another banger:

I must make it clear that I don't condemn these groups for what they believe. I happen to share many of the values emphasized by these organizations. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism." … This unrelenting obsession with a particular goal destroys the perspective of many decent people. They have become easy prey to manipulation and misjudgment.

Yet another prophetic quote:

There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.

Another one:

The specter of single-issue religious groups is growing over our land. … One of the great strengths of our political system always has been our tendency to keep religious issues in the background. By maintaining the separation of church and state, the United States has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world with religious wars.

Yet another accurate one:

Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed. Their mistaken course stems from false notions of equality, ladies and gentlemen. Equality, rightly understood, as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences. Wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater#:~:text=Tolerance%20in%20the%20face%20of,of%20freedom%20is%20no%20vice.

This is good stuff, pretty aligned with what I was getting at here. I think this way of thinking has been running rampant for a very long time. Even at the time of Christ, there was a number of sentiments that ran counter to Christ’s teachings that ended up entwining with the beliefs of the church. No one is a perfect listener, some are much worse than others…

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth.

This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.

~C. S. Lewis

I've seen it said where Musk and Thiel and the other Internet billionaires are the modern robber barons, but one thing to note, they're almost all "Libertarian", they are almost all trying to force some kind of ideology onto us, especially Thiel, since he is completely intertwined with the MAGA movement and the GOP, and they have no goal of contributing to making our country better in the way that Rockefeller, Carnegie, and others of the Gilded Age did.

So while I agree with the spirit of this CS Lewis quote, I believe it is aging like milk.

Here's a good article I found that highlights the contrasts between the old robber barons vs the new:

https://online.maryville.edu/business-degrees/americas-gilded-age/

This lot are indubitably amongst those actively calling the teachings of Jesus "weak" so yeah, definitely not Christians.

Tell me what idea they express that does not align with the Christ fable.

Well for one they certainly aren't abiding by the teachings of Jesus, which is why we joke about conservatives worshipping Supply-Side Jesus (aka Ronnie Reagan).

Now this doesn't apply to all Christians, there are plenty of folks who do abide by what Jesus was teaching, but these MAGA cultists who preach and flock to the so called "Prosperity Gospel" just preach selfishness, avarice, bigotry, seem to be only interested in power and control over others.

What teaching do you think Christian Nationalism isn't following?

As far as I can tell the NT endorses a fascist slave owning society. Do you have a passage where your Christ fable says to allow people to believe in as many gods or as few as they wish in the manner of their choosing?

First of all stop being an edgy condescending prick with your "the Christ fable" bullshit, you're talking with another atheist, so how about you back your edgy bullshit down a notch, you're being a disrespectful embarrassment to the rest of us.

Obviously it's not my religion, so I don't have shit to quote about it, but I do know plenty of theists that do act accordingly and I know plenty of theists who don't, and the MAGAs are among those that do not.

As for what I'm talking about when I say "act accordingly" I'm talking about the specific tenants that are commonly thought of when people talk about Jesus's teachings, you can fault the rest of Abrahamic teachings, but love thy neighbor and all of the other stuff along that line of thinking is what I'm talking about.

Either way, if your intent here is to be pendantic and hyperbolic, I don't have time or patience for your bullshit, if your intent is to try to "bible-Nazi" me into submission, congratulations, you win because I couldn't quote the bible anymore than any of these MAGA idiots could, nor do i care to.

Yeah yeah I suck get in line and take a number.

The Christ fable is exactly that, a fable. Even on the off-chance there was a historical guy who started that religion what records we have wouldn't match anything he did say or preached. Hell there might be a guy named Bruce Wayne, who was rich, and lived in NYC in 1939. That doesn't mean there was a real Batman.

Next I don't care what your religious or lack there of beliefs are. My answer isn't going to change.

When you say act accordingly and mention love thy neighbor stuff you don't have to add on another paragraph bragging about not knowing what the NT literally says, it's redundant. The Christ fable is anti-LGBT, sex negative, pro-slavery, bigoted, anti-religious tolerance, and who brags about one day torturing and murdering his enemies. It's all right freaken there from Revelations back to Mark. And when Paul gets on the scene it somehow gets even worse.

The truth about the Jesus fable is he was a running a personality cult, seeding hard and intolerance, planning a slaughter of the innocent. And every single thing I just said about the myth is right freaken there in Scripture. Big part of the reason why I ended up walking away from this cult. I got tired of apologizing for what the text literally said.

Listen, I get what you're saying, as douchey as you are saying it, but that still doesn't discount my point that there are good people who do believe in your "Christ fable" and attacking their beliefs doesn't win us anything at all. I'm more than comfortable letting the theists who are legitimately good people who believe in their religion, or even their own version of it, keep their beliefs, because we need allies, and attitudes like yours are just going to turn people against us and get us put into the camps that much faster, especially when douchebags like yourself alienate people and leave us with no allies.

Also if you want to change people maybe start with getting rid of that chip on your shoulder, because with the way you're coming across now all you're doing is further entrenching people in their beliefs. If you know you suck or that you're making people not like you then make that change in yourself first before asking someone else to make a change because you think they should, just starting shit on the Internet helps nobody, not even yourself.

At one point have I said that being a Christian means you are a bad person? I am very very clear that I believe people can overcome the handicap of being theist and still be a good person. That isn't me praising Christianity that is my praising humanity.

when douchebags like yourself alienate people and leave us with no allies.

Yeah yeah I suck get in line and take a number.

You are welcome to be an apologist and try spin. I won't. The story is a fable, I will continue to call it a fable until someone produces solid evidence that it happened. The truth matters, at least to one of us.

Go have fun building bridges with people who want you dead. Maybe they will kill you last.

I'm obviously not talking about the ones who would want to kill us, but not that it would matter to you or get past your smugness, you're almost as bad as bad as one of those Christian Nationalists we're talking about here, you just don't have the power that they do over us, but if you ever did boy would that slope get really slippery.

I get it dude, growing up Christian fucked you up mentally, but this topic, just like the world/reality isn't black and white, there are greys, and that area of grey is usually where innocent people are, people who may be into Jesus or Allah, or whatever but don't want to force their religion on others, your paranoid view isn't in line with the world at large. Like is Reverend Raphael Warnock trying to kill us too? There's quite a few LGBTQ religious folks too that aren't trying to force their views on anyone, are they trying to kill us too? Because there's many like them who are our allies in this struggle against white Christian Nationalism.

But hey who needs enemies when we have friends like yourself, amirite my dude?

you’re almost as bad as bad as one of those Christian Nationalists we’re talking about here

I already told you that I suck and you should get in line with all the other people who agree. Sorry kiddo. Go ahead and try again.

I get it dude, growing up Christian fucked you up mentally, but this topic, j

Physically as well and I don't feel like discussing that.

and that area of grey is usually where innocent people are, people who may be into Jesus or Allah, or whatever but don’t want to force their religion on others, your paranoid view isn’t in line with the world at large. Like is Reverend Raphael Warnock trying to kill us

Again. I attack ideas not people. Christianity is a vile religion, that says nothing about people who follow it.

There’s quite a few LGBTQ religious folks too that aren’t trying to force their views on anyone, are they trying to kill us too?

Please tell me the name of the LGBT person who advocates that I change my sexuality and will kill me if I don't.

You noticed how you made this about me and not about the scripture itself?

But hey who needs enemies when we have friends like yourself, amirite my dude?

We are neither.