Hillary Clinton tells voters to 'get over yourself' when it comes to Biden-Trump rematch
With a electoral system like Ranked Choice voting, people would feel safe to vote for whomsoever they wish, as their vote would still be counted even if their preference didn’t win.
Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Republicans LOVE first past the post voting. Just sbsolutely adore it. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans want?
More political parties means a higher percentage of the population is represented by their choices in the voting booth. More people involved in the electoral process, more people engaged.
Its a win win win all around for not just the people, but also for the democratic party. More people voting means more democratic votes. The numbers dont lie. So what’s the hold up blue states?
Some day we will be able to vote for who best represents our interests. We won’t need to grovel on our knees, begging for representationin government. We won’t need to wait for the Republican party to stop existing.
We can do it right now. We don't have to get over a damn thing. If anyone needs to get over themselves, it would be the democrats who assume they are the only way forward.
Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
Again, ask moderates and liberals that question. And then ask them if Trump is such a danger why didn't they fume at Biden for blocking the rail strike? Or raising the defense budget? Or forcing federal workers back to the office? Or going around Congress to ship weapons to Gaza? Why didn't they do anything in support of progressives and leftists for the past three years?
Why is it the people who have gotten fucked over by Biden are being told to vote for him rather than telling Biden, moderate voters and liberal voters they cannot win elections on their own and thus they must make material compromises with the people they're depending on?
You're trying to squeeze blood from a stone here. I'm telling you I'm done propping up procorporate trash candidates for moderate and liberal voters. If they would rather lose to MAGA than make material compromises with leftists and progressives that's on them.
If Biden really believes Trump is such a a danger then he should be on his knees begging for votes. Or is his ego worth more than democracy?
Ok - you didn't answer either question. You gave me a bunch of reasons why you dislike Biden, but no opinion on whether a second Trump presidency would be worse for America than a second Biden presidency. This isn't a trap; I want to know whether we have a basic level of agreement here.
Buddy, stop.
What you're doing isn't clever, nor effective. You need to hold a mirror up to what you're doing and realize you are attempting to hold me to a different standard than moderates and liberals. Let me know when you're ready to hold them accountable and bring us both to the table. All you're doing here is trying to do what people like you always do: Get progressives and leftists to give up anything and everything while giving moderates and liberals a free pass.
No. Biden cannot have my vote until something changes.
Well now I'm very curious as to what you think I'm doing. Because I think I'm asking you to make a judgment call about which of the two candidates who have a shot at becoming president would be better for America. It's a very simple question. What do you think I'm doing?
I'm sorry, but you're going to have to explain that to me. I have no idea what you mean by that. How is asking you your opinion on the relative impact of each potential president holding you to a standard at all, let alone one that's "different from moderates and liberals"? It's not a difficult question. Do you not know the answer?
Have you asked any moderates or liberals that question?
I mean, probably? If someone decides that they don't want to vote because they have a moral quandary with voting for the "lesser of the two evils", then that person doesn't make rational sense to me. So I'd be curious. Their political leanings don't really matter in that scenario. Out of curiosity, why would you think that I wouldn't ask the same questions of anybody else who said the same things you did? I mean, you're just text on a screen to me. I don't know you from Adam, so why would you think that I would have intimate knowledge of your political positions at the outset of our conversation?
Moderates and liberals do have such a quandary. It's used as the reason why Biden blocked the rail strike, why he negotiated down on his own campaign promise for student loan forgiveness and why he didn't cut off weapon shipments to Israel. Simply put, people argue if Biden made material compromises with leftists and progressives then moderates and liberals wouldn't vote for him.
I don't know who is making that argument, but it is a stupid argument. And besides, it doesn't address the point at all. If, for example, Biden made those material compromises with progressives that you describe, and a "moderate" or "liberal" decides not to vote for him when his opponent is Donald Trump, then I would be in the exact same situation with them that I am currently in with you: asking them "do you believe that Donald Trump is fundamentally worse for America than Joe Biden"?
You've argued that I am holding you to a different standard by asking it, but have just demonstrated that that is nonsense. So will you answer now?
That's the point though. Nobody asks that of moderates. They keep getting exactly what they want and zero questions about it. Meanwhile progressives and leftists are expected to capitulate everything to the slightest wiff that moderates and liberals would abandon the party.
I'm done. The roles are reversed now. From now on I won't vote for candidates who won't give me what I want. So you'll have to hope moderates and liberals are ready to suck it up for a bit.
Ok, you're still failing to get it. I think it's not a question of a lack of intelligence on your part, but rather of mulish obstinance. I get it - you don't like Biden because he doesn't cater to your politics. Boo fucking hoo. He doesn't cater to mine either, but I'm voting for him anyway because I'm not a petulant child. The problems this country is facing are far larger than the tiny myopic view you're choosing to adopt. One candidate doesn't care very much about progressive causes, and the other one is a wannabe dictator. At some point, you've got to grow up and realize that your priorities are completely out of whack.
Do you think that Donald Trump would prioritize women's reproductive freedom? Do you think that he would work to ensure that gay marriage isn't overturned by a supreme court who has already talked about the possibility of overturning Obergefell v Hodges?
You complain that Biden broke the railroad strike. Do you think that Trump would be any better? Trump, the guy who thinks so little of the common worker that he often refuses to pay his contractors.
You complain about Biden supporting Israel. Do you think that Trump, the guy who had the US embassy moved to Jerusalem over the extremely vocal opposition of Palestine, would be any better?
I don't think that you're insane, so I think you probably recognize that Donald Trump would be very bad for the causes you supposedly represent. Certainly worse for them than Joe Biden would. But, you're too focused on the dopamine hit that "taking the moral high ground" would represent to realize that your choices will make it more likely that Donald Trump will become president again.
There are precisely two candidates who have a shot at this. Both are bad. But one is miles worse than the other. Not voting, or voting third party isn't as bad as voting for Trump, certainly, but it doesn't help any of the rest of us out either. The fact is, there are 71 million people who voted for Trump in 2020. Those people will likely vote for him again. Which means that there needs to be significantly higher numbers of people voting for Biden to ensure that that orange fuck doesn't assume office again.
When I said that giving your vote to Biden would be in your own self interest, this is what I meant. You wouldn't be the first person to hold your nose at the ballot box because you wanted to avert a greater catastrophe. That's not compromising your principles. It's just being an adult and realizing that you're not always going to get your way, and that taking your ball and going home is a child's way out.
Yes. After decades of watching mulish obstinance by moderates and liberals resulting in the party and every commenter like yourself bending over backwards to serve them I'm gonna give it a try.
Then you better hope Biden doesn't need my vote or starts acting like it real fast.
We've never gotten our way. If you think drawing a line at 20 years of patience isn't sufficient to qualify as adult like behavior then I don't know what to tell you. Again, go tell moderates and liberals they've pushed us for too long. That's your only hope at this point. I'm done.