I took some time to look at who the 2020 Biden voter are who are considering not voting for him.
While there are a growing number of such groups, one of the biggest is Muslims. They get that Trump is a racist and hates Muslims. They're also currently watching Biden going out of his way to support Israel in their genocide. To them, Biden doesn't just represent monsters, he is a monster. They're logic is essentially, "We're fucked either way. Let's get rid of the monster in front of us and then we'll worry about the next monster."
It doesn't matter if you or I agree with that. They're not asking for permission to feel that way. If the Democratic leadership doesn't address those concerns with significantly more empathy than, "don't be stupid", the likely outcome is that Biden will miss out on many of those votes.
Unfortunately Biden has been racking up voter groups that feel betrayed by him. My preference would have been for Biden to find some other Democratic candidate, retire gracefully and strongly back the new candidate.
He even said during 2020 that he wanted to be a one term president, that he was only there to beat trump.
I guess you can argue he still needs to beat trump.
I'm all for someone trying to beat Trump.
It's looking less and less like Biden will be able to pull that off.
He even said during 2020 that he wanted to be a one term president
He literally never said that. This is pure propaganda.
"If Biden is elected, he's going to be 82 years old in four years and he won't be running for reelection," a prominent adviser to the campaign told Politico.
I guess the words didn’t come from his mouth in particular but when your a politician, your staff are your representatives, and his said it.
Can’t believe people would call our verifiable facts as propaganda so confidently with nothing to back it up…
Like I said,
He literally never said that
One fucking advisor to the campaign said it. Not even his official staff. An advisor.
"Verifiable facts", my ass. It's propaganda and you just repeated it without ever looking into it.
Well someone on his team said it, someone that Biden chose to be on his team.
When I go to the bank, what the representative says is basically the same as the bank telling me that info.
This is the security dude out front of the bank 4 years ago telling you they for sure won't get bought out. It's not a fucking binding contract from the CEO.
From what i recall, he was undecided. The media and others were projecting and suggesting that he should be a 1-term president. —Honestly, his vagueness about policy and his advocacy for nothing but the status-quo are primarily what led me to vote Green for the last presidential election.
It doesn’t matter if you or I agree with that.
I'd argue it matters a lot.
What's the argument that it does?
Do you think that this disagreement is likely to change anyone's mind?
Take a fairly famous example. Bassem Youssef has very publicly embraced the sentiment I'm describing. How does your agreement or disagreement have any impact at all?
I'd argue that it will only have an impact if you choose an action that's likely to induce change. He very clearly says that he considers the threats that "If you don't vote for Biden you're voting for Trump," messages to be a form of blackmail.
He finds it unconvincing so it fails to work on him. As near as I can tell, his attitude is fairly representative of a significant number of voters.
How does your agreement or disagreement have any impact at all?
This is a democracy. Potential voters are being influenced right now by the discussions we're having.
I should clarify then.
There is currently some percentage of people who plan to vote for Biden, some that plan to vote for Trump and some who are undecided.
Most polling shows that, if there was an election today, Biden would lose pretty badly.
If you simply agree or disagree, is that likely to change anyone's planned voting behavior?
If you continue to insult the people who do not currently plan to vote for Biden, do you think that will change their minds?
If you continue to insult the people who do not currently plan to vote for Biden, do you think that will change their minds?
Yes. People who plan to protest vote are stupid and should feel stupid. We should be peer pressuring the fuck out of them.
So you think that telling someone that they're stupid and should feel stupid is a good way to change their mind?
Has that ever worked for you?
Works all the time. You've never heard of peer pressure?
Peer pressure is certainly effective but it's not clear this is the same thing.
Do you think they consider you their peer?
Do you consider them your peers?
In cases where you've actually seen peer pressure work, was it actually because you were able to bully your peers into some behavior?
Yes...that's how peer pressure works
The obvious counterdemonstration would be for me to start calling you names and yelling at you to change your mind.
I won't bother with that since it's fairly clear to me that such tactics would be entirely wasted.
Am I wrong? Do you actually believe in this tactic enough to claim that it would also work on you? If not, why do you think it works in one case but not the other?
Because I'm not the typical low information voter.
Anyone who believes in protest voting is gullible enough to be swayed by peer pressure. That's how they decided to protest vote. It's impossible to take an informed look at things and rationally decide to protest vote (except for solidly red or blue areas, and even then it's dangerous to brag about it).
I took some time to look at who the 2020 Biden voter are who are considering not voting for him.
While there are a growing number of such groups, one of the biggest is Muslims. They get that Trump is a racist and hates Muslims. They're also currently watching Biden going out of his way to support Israel in their genocide. To them, Biden doesn't just represent monsters, he is a monster. They're logic is essentially, "We're fucked either way. Let's get rid of the monster in front of us and then we'll worry about the next monster."
It doesn't matter if you or I agree with that. They're not asking for permission to feel that way. If the Democratic leadership doesn't address those concerns with significantly more empathy than, "don't be stupid", the likely outcome is that Biden will miss out on many of those votes.
Unfortunately Biden has been racking up voter groups that feel betrayed by him. My preference would have been for Biden to find some other Democratic candidate, retire gracefully and strongly back the new candidate.
He even said during 2020 that he wanted to be a one term president, that he was only there to beat trump.
I guess you can argue he still needs to beat trump.
I'm all for someone trying to beat Trump.
It's looking less and less like Biden will be able to pull that off.
He literally never said that. This is pure propaganda.
https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2019-12-11/joe-biden-suggests-he-would-only-serve-one-term-if-elected-president
I guess the words didn’t come from his mouth in particular but when your a politician, your staff are your representatives, and his said it.
Can’t believe people would call our verifiable facts as propaganda so confidently with nothing to back it up…
Like I said,
One fucking advisor to the campaign said it. Not even his official staff. An advisor.
"Verifiable facts", my ass. It's propaganda and you just repeated it without ever looking into it.
Well someone on his team said it, someone that Biden chose to be on his team.
When I go to the bank, what the representative says is basically the same as the bank telling me that info.
This is the security dude out front of the bank 4 years ago telling you they for sure won't get bought out. It's not a fucking binding contract from the CEO.
From what i recall, he was undecided. The media and others were projecting and suggesting that he should be a 1-term president. —Honestly, his vagueness about policy and his advocacy for nothing but the status-quo are primarily what led me to vote Green for the last presidential election.
I'd argue it matters a lot.
What's the argument that it does?
Do you think that this disagreement is likely to change anyone's mind?
Take a fairly famous example. Bassem Youssef has very publicly embraced the sentiment I'm describing. How does your agreement or disagreement have any impact at all?
I'd argue that it will only have an impact if you choose an action that's likely to induce change. He very clearly says that he considers the threats that "If you don't vote for Biden you're voting for Trump," messages to be a form of blackmail.
He finds it unconvincing so it fails to work on him. As near as I can tell, his attitude is fairly representative of a significant number of voters.
This is a democracy. Potential voters are being influenced right now by the discussions we're having.
I should clarify then.
There is currently some percentage of people who plan to vote for Biden, some that plan to vote for Trump and some who are undecided.
Most polling shows that, if there was an election today, Biden would lose pretty badly.
If you simply agree or disagree, is that likely to change anyone's planned voting behavior? If you continue to insult the people who do not currently plan to vote for Biden, do you think that will change their minds?
Yes. People who plan to protest vote are stupid and should feel stupid. We should be peer pressuring the fuck out of them.
So you think that telling someone that they're stupid and should feel stupid is a good way to change their mind?
Has that ever worked for you?
Works all the time. You've never heard of peer pressure?
Peer pressure is certainly effective but it's not clear this is the same thing.
Do you think they consider you their peer?
Do you consider them your peers?
In cases where you've actually seen peer pressure work, was it actually because you were able to bully your peers into some behavior?
Yes...that's how peer pressure works
The obvious counterdemonstration would be for me to start calling you names and yelling at you to change your mind.
I won't bother with that since it's fairly clear to me that such tactics would be entirely wasted.
Am I wrong? Do you actually believe in this tactic enough to claim that it would also work on you? If not, why do you think it works in one case but not the other?
Because I'm not the typical low information voter.
Anyone who believes in protest voting is gullible enough to be swayed by peer pressure. That's how they decided to protest vote. It's impossible to take an informed look at things and rationally decide to protest vote (except for solidly red or blue areas, and even then it's dangerous to brag about it).