I get that you have your propaganda you need to shill, but as everyone has already told you- Trump will do the same, and much worse additionally. You just refuse to acknowledge this because it’s not part of your programming.
And you’re not the majority of his voters.
If you have all the information, educate me. I have a hard time understanding people who don't dispute their is a genocide in Gaza, yet they still vote shame anti genocide voters.
Do you believe Biden and Israel is committing a full on genocide in Gaza but trump will start genocides in other places so it's better to vote Biden?
Or do you believe what Biden and Israel are doing is relatively minor and would be much worse under a trump presidency?
I believe Israel is- absolutely. However, I believe… no, I KNOW- that they’d be doing it without Biden being involved in any way. In fact, they’re so stockpiled that they’re barely using what Biden is sending.
And directly accusing Biden of genocide is about as ignorant as one can be on the subject. He has no authority to commit genocide in a country he’s not at war with, or has any ability to dictate such actions as a proxy on behalf of another country. Your manufactured outrage and goalpost moving is not something that the majority of people stand behind.
Again- The atrocities carried out by Israel is not something that wouldn’t be happening if America had nothing to do with it. But I’m sure you know this already- it just stands in the way of your agenda.
OK, just to clarify, you believe Biden has no leavage to stop Israel and they aren't reliant on the tens of billions in weapons aid or the diplomatic help we gift them?
It’s pretty well known and documented fact. It’s not a belief. It’s just…. Reality.
Biden doesn’t call the shots in Israel. I’m not sure if anyone told you, but he’s the president of the United States ONLY.
I know you’ve been told this isn’t the case, and that cognitive dissonance will stand in the way of you accepting this, but reality doesn’t really care how you feel about it.
I don't necessarily disagree with that. I would hope Biden has leverage, Israel is a client state after all. But it's also true that the Israeli government is fiercely independent as you said earlier.
If the US weapon shipements don't matter to Israel, Biden should hold shipments while he investigates crimes of genocide. He should also withhold diplomatic cover. That will help Biden at home, he can better show he's trying to stop the genocide. And it may even get the far RW government ruling over Israel voted out of office. Biden is the best candidate in 2024, but I believe he can only win if he proves he's doing everything to help the ME stay out of war. And what he has been doing isn't enough IMO.
Fair enough. But my original point is that people are so committed to this single issue to push Biden to do the right thing that they’re withholding their vote and suggesting others do so- while wholeheartedly acknowledging that it would be exponentially worse under Trump.
This is why so many people think they’re right-wing propaganda trolls. Because with what we know about what Trump has done, and promises to do- how could anyone suggest not voting as an option?
I think the difference between us, you'd rather blame voters and I'd rather blame leaders. I used to blame voters as well until I realized very online people, who engage in politics, live in a different reality from average voters. And very online people are a tiny minority of voters. Most voters hate spending time learning about politics. If you don't believe me, do phone banking, talk to normal voters.
So when I'm say things like Joe Biden is risking this election being complicit with genocide, I'm not predicting how very online people are going to vote. I'm saying average voters seeing a horrible genocide, seeing the world on fire, are going to be less likely to vote for the one currently in the oval office.
No, the difference between us is that I don’t think sacrificing our democracy because the chosen candidate doesn’t do EXACTLY what I want them to is a good idea.
In fact, it’s a selfish and very fucking stupid idea that is going to hurt A LOT of people.
What am I sacrificing brother? I am one voter in a solid red state. My vote, like most Americans, doesn't matter in the Electoral College. Why are you mad at me?
So since you believe your vote doesn’t matter, how about you stay out of a discussion with people who believe their votes DO matter?
Because the rest of us are trying to keep America afloat and out of the hands of a tyrant that would sell it off to the highest bidder.
You lost the plot, telling voters they can't criticize a president while you sanctimoniously claim you are saving democracy. You really don't see the problem with that?
Show me where I said they can’t criticize him and we can continue this discussion- otherwise, we’re done here.
Because I think I’ve been very clear that I’m talking about the idiot that are acting like spoiled little children by not voting at all and suggesting others don’t as well.
I get that you have your propaganda you need to shill, but as everyone has already told you- Trump will do the same, and much worse additionally. You just refuse to acknowledge this because it’s not part of your programming.
And you’re not the majority of his voters.
If you have all the information, educate me. I have a hard time understanding people who don't dispute their is a genocide in Gaza, yet they still vote shame anti genocide voters.
Do you believe Biden and Israel is committing a full on genocide in Gaza but trump will start genocides in other places so it's better to vote Biden?
Or do you believe what Biden and Israel are doing is relatively minor and would be much worse under a trump presidency?
I believe Israel is- absolutely. However, I believe… no, I KNOW- that they’d be doing it without Biden being involved in any way. In fact, they’re so stockpiled that they’re barely using what Biden is sending.
And directly accusing Biden of genocide is about as ignorant as one can be on the subject. He has no authority to commit genocide in a country he’s not at war with, or has any ability to dictate such actions as a proxy on behalf of another country. Your manufactured outrage and goalpost moving is not something that the majority of people stand behind.
Again- The atrocities carried out by Israel is not something that wouldn’t be happening if America had nothing to do with it. But I’m sure you know this already- it just stands in the way of your agenda.
OK, just to clarify, you believe Biden has no leavage to stop Israel and they aren't reliant on the tens of billions in weapons aid or the diplomatic help we gift them?
It’s pretty well known and documented fact. It’s not a belief. It’s just…. Reality.
Biden doesn’t call the shots in Israel. I’m not sure if anyone told you, but he’s the president of the United States ONLY.
I know you’ve been told this isn’t the case, and that cognitive dissonance will stand in the way of you accepting this, but reality doesn’t really care how you feel about it.
I don't necessarily disagree with that. I would hope Biden has leverage, Israel is a client state after all. But it's also true that the Israeli government is fiercely independent as you said earlier.
If the US weapon shipements don't matter to Israel, Biden should hold shipments while he investigates crimes of genocide. He should also withhold diplomatic cover. That will help Biden at home, he can better show he's trying to stop the genocide. And it may even get the far RW government ruling over Israel voted out of office. Biden is the best candidate in 2024, but I believe he can only win if he proves he's doing everything to help the ME stay out of war. And what he has been doing isn't enough IMO.
Fair enough. But my original point is that people are so committed to this single issue to push Biden to do the right thing that they’re withholding their vote and suggesting others do so- while wholeheartedly acknowledging that it would be exponentially worse under Trump.
This is why so many people think they’re right-wing propaganda trolls. Because with what we know about what Trump has done, and promises to do- how could anyone suggest not voting as an option?
I think the difference between us, you'd rather blame voters and I'd rather blame leaders. I used to blame voters as well until I realized very online people, who engage in politics, live in a different reality from average voters. And very online people are a tiny minority of voters. Most voters hate spending time learning about politics. If you don't believe me, do phone banking, talk to normal voters.
So when I'm say things like Joe Biden is risking this election being complicit with genocide, I'm not predicting how very online people are going to vote. I'm saying average voters seeing a horrible genocide, seeing the world on fire, are going to be less likely to vote for the one currently in the oval office.
No, the difference between us is that I don’t think sacrificing our democracy because the chosen candidate doesn’t do EXACTLY what I want them to is a good idea.
In fact, it’s a selfish and very fucking stupid idea that is going to hurt A LOT of people.
What am I sacrificing brother? I am one voter in a solid red state. My vote, like most Americans, doesn't matter in the Electoral College. Why are you mad at me?
So since you believe your vote doesn’t matter, how about you stay out of a discussion with people who believe their votes DO matter?
Because the rest of us are trying to keep America afloat and out of the hands of a tyrant that would sell it off to the highest bidder.
You lost the plot, telling voters they can't criticize a president while you sanctimoniously claim you are saving democracy. You really don't see the problem with that?
Show me where I said they can’t criticize him and we can continue this discussion- otherwise, we’re done here.
Because I think I’ve been very clear that I’m talking about the idiot that are acting like spoiled little children by not voting at all and suggesting others don’t as well.