And your fucken point. Shit can change it just takes work. Though in this case it was quite unlikely, but nothing is stagnant perhaps if given enough work and the right circumstances we'll get a socdem as president. But alas I am simply reiterating my point.
I will reiterate one of my previous points, Trump and his ilk are genocidal both at home and abroad, and frankly speaking those folks in Palestine were fucked the second the old Palestinian organizations were surplanted by Hamas. This means to me that the math is simple genocide at home and abroad or no genocide at home and a possible cessation of said genocide abroad. It may seem shit but the math is pretty clear on what needs to be done.
the math is pretty clear
for the immediate next election cycle, yes
for the next time there's a palestine, very much no
Palestine is a relatively unique situation. Reminder a lot of boomers grew up knowing folks who experienced the holocaust, this creates a relatively annoying situation where they dont want to repeat the past which causes near unilateral support for Israel. It aint a position reached by logic or reason but by raw and very stupid emotions. Also the weird ass Christians trying to start Armageddon, but I want to lock them in a church and burn it down morals be damned because they legit fucking scare me and also piss me off.
My point is that this situation is pretty fucken unique. For fucks sake the US is giving a good bit of support to Armenia and the Armenians are nominally aligned with fucken Russia and against Turkey our ally, mind you the Turks have the same ability as the English with pissing everyone off.
I'm genuinely surprised you kept talking to them after it was clear they're arguing in bad faith.
Im a Scottish descended Redneck, im stubborn and dense enough that one of my preferred tactics in a fight is to headbutt. I will outlast even the most bad faith motherfucker due to these two reasons.
palestine is a unique situation? buddy there's literally three attempted genocides going on at the moment. it's not unique by any stretch of the imagination
Politically unique to the US.
Not really. In detail, maybe, but there will always be an excuse available to avoid committing US resources to any given genocide.
Yes, but non-committal is different from active assistance for eighty plus years. Without the whole eighty plus years of support for the genociders its a lot easier to get to the help the people getting genocided. Hell I would say even with that some countries are on far thinner ice compared to Israel, like Turkey.
that's the thing though, they don't need to "get help to" palestine, they just need to stop actively supporting israel in its genocide
you think the appetite is going to be there for actually committing resources somewhere when they can't even just do nothing?
The problem is that diplomacy and foreign policy have weight and momentum, to even get to the do nothing stage you first have to kill said momentum to enough of a degree so as to seperate oneself. Its shit but its always been true, politics and diplomacy are rarely ever simple, even Rome had to play diplomacy with the Persians.
rome famously neglected diplomacy, but in either case once you get rid of the mental gymnastics your argument boils down to "it's too hard so we shouldn't try"
If thats what you take from it sure, but my point im trying to convey is that shit like this is slow to change. Itll take time and effort regardless but with Israel in particular there are decades of momentum behind backing them. As I said in another comment a lot of Boomers for example back Israel because there were a quite a few holocaust survivors kicking around and the concept of not backing Israel became a taboo.
To do nothing on the issue requires breaking a taboo and while not impossible it will take time regardless. If anything id say its breaking faster than id expect.
and my point is that it's not going to change unless people attempt to change it
it's literally the same argument that gets wheeled out any time there's pressure for social change, then when things finally change we all look back in 10 years and ask ourselves how the hell we ever tolerated the old way of doing things
if you want to vote biden because you think the short term benefits of avoiding trump for another 4 years outweigh the long term drawbacks of further entrenching the same status quo that led to palestine, fine
just don't pretend that you never had any choice in the matter
And your fucken point. Shit can change it just takes work. Though in this case it was quite unlikely, but nothing is stagnant perhaps if given enough work and the right circumstances we'll get a socdem as president. But alas I am simply reiterating my point.
I will reiterate one of my previous points, Trump and his ilk are genocidal both at home and abroad, and frankly speaking those folks in Palestine were fucked the second the old Palestinian organizations were surplanted by Hamas. This means to me that the math is simple genocide at home and abroad or no genocide at home and a possible cessation of said genocide abroad. It may seem shit but the math is pretty clear on what needs to be done.
for the immediate next election cycle, yes
for the next time there's a palestine, very much no
Palestine is a relatively unique situation. Reminder a lot of boomers grew up knowing folks who experienced the holocaust, this creates a relatively annoying situation where they dont want to repeat the past which causes near unilateral support for Israel. It aint a position reached by logic or reason but by raw and very stupid emotions. Also the weird ass Christians trying to start Armageddon, but I want to lock them in a church and burn it down morals be damned because they legit fucking scare me and also piss me off.
My point is that this situation is pretty fucken unique. For fucks sake the US is giving a good bit of support to Armenia and the Armenians are nominally aligned with fucken Russia and against Turkey our ally, mind you the Turks have the same ability as the English with pissing everyone off.
I'm genuinely surprised you kept talking to them after it was clear they're arguing in bad faith.
Im a Scottish descended Redneck, im stubborn and dense enough that one of my preferred tactics in a fight is to headbutt. I will outlast even the most bad faith motherfucker due to these two reasons.
palestine is a unique situation? buddy there's literally three attempted genocides going on at the moment. it's not unique by any stretch of the imagination
Politically unique to the US.
Not really. In detail, maybe, but there will always be an excuse available to avoid committing US resources to any given genocide.
Yes, but non-committal is different from active assistance for eighty plus years. Without the whole eighty plus years of support for the genociders its a lot easier to get to the help the people getting genocided. Hell I would say even with that some countries are on far thinner ice compared to Israel, like Turkey.
that's the thing though, they don't need to "get help to" palestine, they just need to stop actively supporting israel in its genocide
you think the appetite is going to be there for actually committing resources somewhere when they can't even just do nothing?
The problem is that diplomacy and foreign policy have weight and momentum, to even get to the do nothing stage you first have to kill said momentum to enough of a degree so as to seperate oneself. Its shit but its always been true, politics and diplomacy are rarely ever simple, even Rome had to play diplomacy with the Persians.
rome famously neglected diplomacy, but in either case once you get rid of the mental gymnastics your argument boils down to "it's too hard so we shouldn't try"
If thats what you take from it sure, but my point im trying to convey is that shit like this is slow to change. Itll take time and effort regardless but with Israel in particular there are decades of momentum behind backing them. As I said in another comment a lot of Boomers for example back Israel because there were a quite a few holocaust survivors kicking around and the concept of not backing Israel became a taboo.
To do nothing on the issue requires breaking a taboo and while not impossible it will take time regardless. If anything id say its breaking faster than id expect.
and my point is that it's not going to change unless people attempt to change it
it's literally the same argument that gets wheeled out any time there's pressure for social change, then when things finally change we all look back in 10 years and ask ourselves how the hell we ever tolerated the old way of doing things
if you want to vote biden because you think the short term benefits of avoiding trump for another 4 years outweigh the long term drawbacks of further entrenching the same status quo that led to palestine, fine
just don't pretend that you never had any choice in the matter