Youre hearing about him after he tried to kill someone for the first time. I said before. Now, think to before this happened, how do you tell this guy isnt a responsible gun owner?
These aren’t the actions of a responsible gun owner …
I think you missed the word before
Didnt see myself needing it to be honest...I thought I was clear in that what I meant was it is normal to some, not all. Ill try to be clearer in future.
Did he know the laws before, simply getting amnesia the day he broke them thus "becoming" an irresponsible gun owner, or did he never know the laws, and was always an irresponsible gun owner?
Whether you can tell or not has no basis on whether he is or not. Can you tell what is inside of an unlabeled soup can before you open it? No, but that doesn't make it not chicken noodle, you just have to open it before you know that it's chicken noodle. Just because he hadn't opened his can and shown his irresponsible contents doesn't mean they weren't in there to begin with, the closed can doesn't contain tomato soup until you open it and it magically becomes chicken noodle now that it is open.
Whether you can tell or not has no basis on whether he is or not.
I know youre used to the US where tons of gun homicides happen everyday, but its not normal for the rest of the developed world. If you want guns to be a safe thing, you have to be able to tell before these people go murdering. Hindsight is 20/20. There are people today that are going to kill someone for the first time, people that to the outside world look like responsible gun owners.
Unfortunately, like unlabeled cans, people are able to hide their contents. Unlike the cans, people can even actively attempt to resist "opening" them to find out their contents, making it all that more of an impossible task.
right, do you see the problem here? To the outside world, a responsible gun owner, and an irresponsible one that hasnt killed yet look the same. how do you keep guns away from irresponsible gun owners before they kill someone? You have to treat every gun owner as irresponsible, because we cant tell before it happens. And it needs to stop happening.
Ah yes, guilty until proven innocent, the backbone of the American justice system, and a good way to treat one's fellow human.
I dont think you know what our justice system does with people guilty of shooting people if you think that's what Im suggesting.
Yes, shooting people, the only thing one could possibly be considered "guilty" of, how could I forget.
I mean, that's what we're talking about
Well technically we're talking about people who haven't hurt anyone who through some minority report precognition we have decided will shoot someone beyond a shadow of a doubt, enough so that we can deprive them of their rights like a criminal even though they aren't one yet.
Hell tbh, why stop there? If we've determined that a person has a high enough percentage chance to kill someone one day, why simply remove legal access to one tool with which he could do so instead of removing the would-be killer himself, either through preemptive execution or life imprisonment? Hell, they were statistically similar to murderers of the past so we may as well, right? I mean as long as we're doing pre-crime it makes sense to me!
This isnt punishment for any kind of crime. Like, no one is allowed to drive drunk. Some people can manage it, they drive drunk anyway and never hit anyone. Are we depriving them of their rights? Am i treating them like criminals by not letting them drive drunk? I dont know what warped dystopian images youve got in your head of a world where people arent allowed to have guns, because we have a reality to look at. Places like Germany and Japan already do this. Are those awful places to live to you?
Right, nobody is allowed to drive drunk, yet we don't have checks at the local liquor store based on who is "more likely" to drive drunk, we punish those who get caught doing it with jail and Blow 'N' Gos, as those are the ones who have proven themselves to be irresponsible.
If we said "sorry but someone decided that you look like the type to drink and drive so you're not ever allowed to buy or consume alcohol," that would be a violation of their rights, and that is what you want to do with your pre-crime nonsense.
Yes. Germany and Japan would be awful places to live to me, and that is without even considering they don't trust their citizens to protect themselves. Germany would be the better of the two but, still nein, Japan is xenophobic and since I'm an "outsider" it sounds like a lame place to live. Combine that with the whole "Japanese police inspect every home in their district 1x/yr just cause, looking for that evil, evil, marijuana and can hold suspects indefinitely forcing confessions leading to a 98% conviction rate which is widely regarded as likely a large amount of unjust convictions" thing and yeaaahhh if you live there I can see why you're unfamiliar with being treated like a human.
You're throwing in a lot of your own shit. Havent said anything about this being criminal, about screening or having checks or how anyone looks. I havent said any of that. No one is allowed to own a gun same as no one is allowed to drive drunk.
Why would germany be an awful place to live? With its higher standard of living, higher life expectancy, much lower crime rates, better wages and access to healthcare. Thats the thing, i dont think you know what its like outside the US. Youre obsessed with having a gun to protect yourself because gun violence is common here. Germans dont need to protect themselves from gun violence because no one has guns. They just dont have that worry altogether.
Youre hearing about him after he tried to kill someone for the first time. I said before. Now, think to before this happened, how do you tell this guy isnt a responsible gun owner?
These aren’t the actions of a responsible gun owner …
I think you missed the word before
Didnt see myself needing it to be honest...I thought I was clear in that what I meant was it is normal to some, not all. Ill try to be clearer in future.
Did he know the laws before, simply getting amnesia the day he broke them thus "becoming" an irresponsible gun owner, or did he never know the laws, and was always an irresponsible gun owner?
Whether you can tell or not has no basis on whether he is or not. Can you tell what is inside of an unlabeled soup can before you open it? No, but that doesn't make it not chicken noodle, you just have to open it before you know that it's chicken noodle. Just because he hadn't opened his can and shown his irresponsible contents doesn't mean they weren't in there to begin with, the closed can doesn't contain tomato soup until you open it and it magically becomes chicken noodle now that it is open.
I know youre used to the US where tons of gun homicides happen everyday, but its not normal for the rest of the developed world. If you want guns to be a safe thing, you have to be able to tell before these people go murdering. Hindsight is 20/20. There are people today that are going to kill someone for the first time, people that to the outside world look like responsible gun owners.
Unfortunately, like unlabeled cans, people are able to hide their contents. Unlike the cans, people can even actively attempt to resist "opening" them to find out their contents, making it all that more of an impossible task.
right, do you see the problem here? To the outside world, a responsible gun owner, and an irresponsible one that hasnt killed yet look the same. how do you keep guns away from irresponsible gun owners before they kill someone? You have to treat every gun owner as irresponsible, because we cant tell before it happens. And it needs to stop happening.
Ah yes, guilty until proven innocent, the backbone of the American justice system, and a good way to treat one's fellow human.
I dont think you know what our justice system does with people guilty of shooting people if you think that's what Im suggesting.
Yes, shooting people, the only thing one could possibly be considered "guilty" of, how could I forget.
I mean, that's what we're talking about
Well technically we're talking about people who haven't hurt anyone who through some minority report precognition we have decided will shoot someone beyond a shadow of a doubt, enough so that we can deprive them of their rights like a criminal even though they aren't one yet.
Hell tbh, why stop there? If we've determined that a person has a high enough percentage chance to kill someone one day, why simply remove legal access to one tool with which he could do so instead of removing the would-be killer himself, either through preemptive execution or life imprisonment? Hell, they were statistically similar to murderers of the past so we may as well, right? I mean as long as we're doing pre-crime it makes sense to me!
This isnt punishment for any kind of crime. Like, no one is allowed to drive drunk. Some people can manage it, they drive drunk anyway and never hit anyone. Are we depriving them of their rights? Am i treating them like criminals by not letting them drive drunk? I dont know what warped dystopian images youve got in your head of a world where people arent allowed to have guns, because we have a reality to look at. Places like Germany and Japan already do this. Are those awful places to live to you?
Right, nobody is allowed to drive drunk, yet we don't have checks at the local liquor store based on who is "more likely" to drive drunk, we punish those who get caught doing it with jail and Blow 'N' Gos, as those are the ones who have proven themselves to be irresponsible.
If we said "sorry but someone decided that you look like the type to drink and drive so you're not ever allowed to buy or consume alcohol," that would be a violation of their rights, and that is what you want to do with your pre-crime nonsense.
Yes. Germany and Japan would be awful places to live to me, and that is without even considering they don't trust their citizens to protect themselves. Germany would be the better of the two but, still nein, Japan is xenophobic and since I'm an "outsider" it sounds like a lame place to live. Combine that with the whole "Japanese police inspect every home in their district 1x/yr just cause, looking for that evil, evil, marijuana and can hold suspects indefinitely forcing confessions leading to a 98% conviction rate which is widely regarded as likely a large amount of unjust convictions" thing and yeaaahhh if you live there I can see why you're unfamiliar with being treated like a human.
You're throwing in a lot of your own shit. Havent said anything about this being criminal, about screening or having checks or how anyone looks. I havent said any of that. No one is allowed to own a gun same as no one is allowed to drive drunk.
Why would germany be an awful place to live? With its higher standard of living, higher life expectancy, much lower crime rates, better wages and access to healthcare. Thats the thing, i dont think you know what its like outside the US. Youre obsessed with having a gun to protect yourself because gun violence is common here. Germans dont need to protect themselves from gun violence because no one has guns. They just dont have that worry altogether.