"Compared to the rest of the industry" is damning with faint praise.
I'd say most games are maybe worth $20, more only for the ones filled with content that you can replay many times.
Fortunately there are enough people who value them more than you, because most games, even moderately budgeted ones, wouldn't be able to sustain themselves at that price.
"Moderately budgeted" compared to what? Modern AAA game budgets have absolutely exploded and are not sustainable, turning game dev cycles into 5+ year marathons and giving it Hollywood Syndrome where every game needs to be a blockbuster to be considered a success and no risks are able to be taken because of the massive investment each project requires. Do you think that's sustainable? Or do you think that perhaps things have gone out of control when a $90 price point is being floated, even in conjunction with money printing anti-consumer features like lootboxes?
Let's say that including benefits, a developer's salary is about $100k. Maybe a small team of 8 people worked on a game like The Thaumaturge for 3 years. Before you even factor in contract work like voice acting, that would put the development budget at $2.4M. If the game cost $20, they'd have to sell about 120k copies to break even on that investment, which is far from guaranteed. By pricing the game at $35, their break even point is nearly half of that. This is a moderately budgeted game, not a AAA game with microtransactions.
Even an experienced team like Mimimi games, who made smart development choices by iterating on what they built before to keep costs down, releasing critical successes several times in a row, ended up closing down because the money coming in was too tight. Their games ranged from $30-$50 and had every sale, bundle, giveaway, and promotional opportunity you could think of.
If the game cost $20, they'd have to sell about 120k copies to break even on that Investment,
Far more actually. You have to deduct taxes, steam's cut etc. from those 20$.
8 full time 100k salaried employees is quite a bit more than "small team." Doom was 6 people. That many people are simply not required to make the games that are being produced; they can choose to size down any time they want. If they want to go "all in" on making a "AAAA" game, then they need to deal with that reality and make a game that is actually worth $60.
Their games ranged from $30-$50 and had every sale, bundle, giveaway, and promotional opportunity you could think of.
Perhaps that's part of the problem? Maybe they should have priced their works more fairly from the start and not rely on bundles and givaways which surely aren't going to make them more money.
My point is, the "average" game is absolutely not worth $30. Most games should flop because they're overproduced trash, and we should return to smaller, more artistic-focused development with a smaller scale, more consumer friendly pricing, and where the (few) devs get more slices of their pie.
I'm sorry that you don't enjoy video games enough to pay $30 for most of the good ones, but I hope one day you can sit down with a calculator and realize why it must be that way.
I'd gladly pay $30 if they are worth it, most games are simply not worth it. Recently I've put over 75 hours into Atom RPG the last two weeks, and it's $15 full price, and the developers have released a spinoff and announced a new project, so they seem to be doing fine.
Hopefully you can sit down with a calculator and figure out that things can be better.
The value that I get out of games isn't measured only in hours, especially since it's easy to inflate a game's length.
That's true, I'm using hours per dollar as a shorthand for value, but on the flip side if video games are going to be a couple hours of one-time fun, they gotta expect to have a price point similar to movie theaters which have a similar experience, which is like $10-$15
Video games are often afraid to be only a couple of hours these days, often to their detriment, but if you multiplied a movie's runtime by 2-3x for some extra production value in your game, you end up at that $35 price point easily for a game that's 5-10 hours long. Even for a direct comparison to Atom RPG, I'd rather pay 2-3x as much for a Wasteland game to get what I'm looking for, and Wasteland games aren't exactly short. Neither is V Rising.
Video games are afraid to be only a couple hours because they are afraid of charging less than $10
If your game is short, doesn't offer replayability, and doesn't have any novel gameplay to truly set it apart, then youtube Lets Plays offer real competition of getting basically the whole package.
but if you multiplied a movie’s runtime by 2-3x for some extra production value in your game, you end up at that $35 price point easily for a game that’s 5-10 hours long
That's making a couple assumptions though, that price point is for large studio releases and non-matinee prices. If I go see a movie on a Tuesday afternoon, it's only $7, a perfect price for an average small game.
Even for a direct comparison to Atom RPG, I’d rather pay 2-3x as much for a Wasteland game to get what I’m looking for
Atom RPG isn't exactly a Wasteland game, it leans pretty heavy on classic Fallout, which while inspired by Wasteland, have diverged noticeably in the end product. So if you wanted to get what you're looking for in this case, Fallout 1 and 2 are $10 each, or you can get a bundle of 1/2 and Brotherhood of Steel for $20 (more like brotherhood of steal amirite).
Video games are afraid to be only a couple hours because they are afraid of charging less than $10
I would love to live in a world where we get FPS campaigns that are about 8 hours long, are fulfilling, and cost $60. That used to be the norm, and we were happy with that. A Let's Play is not a substitute.
So if you wanted to get what you're looking for in this case, Fallout 1 and 2 are $10 each, or you can get a bundle of 1/2 and Brotherhood of Steel for $20 (more like brotherhood of steal amirite).
That assumes I don't care about things like better resolutions and frame rates, voice acting, modern considerations for how people actually interact with games, etc. I've also played Fallout 1 already.
That used to be the norm, and we were happy with that
Then you should be supportive of deflation in the video game industry, instead of making excuses for why we should pay more for less
That's a movie ticket and a snack. Most games offer far more (or at least longer) entertainment than that. Even games I won't finish.
The average movie isnt worth ticket price either IMO, and length certainly doesn't equal quality.
And I'd certainly say "most games" are absolutely not worth it, as the majority of games are simply lacking in terms of inspiration, innovation, compelling gameplay or story, or anything else to set it apart and give me a reason to play.
The average movie isnt worth ticket price either
The worth of a thing is determined by what people will pay for it.
length certainly doesn't equal quality.
For any single product that's true, statistically it makes the two classes (games and movies) comparable.
I don't think you'll earnestly want to argue that 1 hour of movie entertainment is in general worth multiple hours of gaming entertainment. There are good and bad movies and games, but if you compare those of similar quality, the fact stands that the game will give you more for your money. Whether you want more of course depends on you - I gather that gaming doesn't seem to really entertain you for the most part.
The worth of a thing is determined by what people will pay for it.
No, that's how price is determined, not worth.
I don’t think you’ll earnestly want to argue that 1 hour of movie entertainment is in general worth multiple hours of gaming entertainment
Depends on the movie and depends on the game. Some games with lots of content are good (if they're well made), others are filled with trash content that is a waste of time to go through. Same with movies, there are some fantastic 75 minute cinematic experiences, and there are some that drag on for 3+ hours and do not successfully utilize their resources into a good movie. And vice versa.
but if you compare those of similar quality, the fact stands that the game will give you more for your money
If it's a good game, sure, but we're talking averages here and the average game is not good, so needing to play even more tedious uninspired levels doesn't add any value, it in fact just makes it a bigger waste of time.
I gather that gaming doesn’t seem to really entertain you for the most part.
I actually love gaming, and I wish more consumers would have higher standards to not enable the terrible practices of the industry.
"Compared to the rest of the industry" is damning with faint praise.
I'd say most games are maybe worth $20, more only for the ones filled with content that you can replay many times.
Fortunately there are enough people who value them more than you, because most games, even moderately budgeted ones, wouldn't be able to sustain themselves at that price.
"Moderately budgeted" compared to what? Modern AAA game budgets have absolutely exploded and are not sustainable, turning game dev cycles into 5+ year marathons and giving it Hollywood Syndrome where every game needs to be a blockbuster to be considered a success and no risks are able to be taken because of the massive investment each project requires. Do you think that's sustainable? Or do you think that perhaps things have gone out of control when a $90 price point is being floated, even in conjunction with money printing anti-consumer features like lootboxes?
Let's say that including benefits, a developer's salary is about $100k. Maybe a small team of 8 people worked on a game like The Thaumaturge for 3 years. Before you even factor in contract work like voice acting, that would put the development budget at $2.4M. If the game cost $20, they'd have to sell about 120k copies to break even on that investment, which is far from guaranteed. By pricing the game at $35, their break even point is nearly half of that. This is a moderately budgeted game, not a AAA game with microtransactions.
Even an experienced team like Mimimi games, who made smart development choices by iterating on what they built before to keep costs down, releasing critical successes several times in a row, ended up closing down because the money coming in was too tight. Their games ranged from $30-$50 and had every sale, bundle, giveaway, and promotional opportunity you could think of.
Far more actually. You have to deduct taxes, steam's cut etc. from those 20$.
8 full time 100k salaried employees is quite a bit more than "small team." Doom was 6 people. That many people are simply not required to make the games that are being produced; they can choose to size down any time they want. If they want to go "all in" on making a "AAAA" game, then they need to deal with that reality and make a game that is actually worth $60.
Perhaps that's part of the problem? Maybe they should have priced their works more fairly from the start and not rely on bundles and givaways which surely aren't going to make them more money.
My point is, the "average" game is absolutely not worth $30. Most games should flop because they're overproduced trash, and we should return to smaller, more artistic-focused development with a smaller scale, more consumer friendly pricing, and where the (few) devs get more slices of their pie.
I'm sorry that you don't enjoy video games enough to pay $30 for most of the good ones, but I hope one day you can sit down with a calculator and realize why it must be that way.
I'd gladly pay $30 if they are worth it, most games are simply not worth it. Recently I've put over 75 hours into Atom RPG the last two weeks, and it's $15 full price, and the developers have released a spinoff and announced a new project, so they seem to be doing fine.
Hopefully you can sit down with a calculator and figure out that things can be better.
The value that I get out of games isn't measured only in hours, especially since it's easy to inflate a game's length.
That's true, I'm using hours per dollar as a shorthand for value, but on the flip side if video games are going to be a couple hours of one-time fun, they gotta expect to have a price point similar to movie theaters which have a similar experience, which is like $10-$15
Video games are often afraid to be only a couple of hours these days, often to their detriment, but if you multiplied a movie's runtime by 2-3x for some extra production value in your game, you end up at that $35 price point easily for a game that's 5-10 hours long. Even for a direct comparison to Atom RPG, I'd rather pay 2-3x as much for a Wasteland game to get what I'm looking for, and Wasteland games aren't exactly short. Neither is V Rising.
Video games are afraid to be only a couple hours because they are afraid of charging less than $10
If your game is short, doesn't offer replayability, and doesn't have any novel gameplay to truly set it apart, then youtube Lets Plays offer real competition of getting basically the whole package.
That's making a couple assumptions though, that price point is for large studio releases and non-matinee prices. If I go see a movie on a Tuesday afternoon, it's only $7, a perfect price for an average small game.
Atom RPG isn't exactly a Wasteland game, it leans pretty heavy on classic Fallout, which while inspired by Wasteland, have diverged noticeably in the end product. So if you wanted to get what you're looking for in this case, Fallout 1 and 2 are $10 each, or you can get a bundle of 1/2 and Brotherhood of Steel for $20 (more like brotherhood of steal amirite).
I would love to live in a world where we get FPS campaigns that are about 8 hours long, are fulfilling, and cost $60. That used to be the norm, and we were happy with that. A Let's Play is not a substitute.
That assumes I don't care about things like better resolutions and frame rates, voice acting, modern considerations for how people actually interact with games, etc. I've also played Fallout 1 already.
Then you should be supportive of deflation in the video game industry, instead of making excuses for why we should pay more for less
That's a movie ticket and a snack. Most games offer far more (or at least longer) entertainment than that. Even games I won't finish.
The average movie isnt worth ticket price either IMO, and length certainly doesn't equal quality.
And I'd certainly say "most games" are absolutely not worth it, as the majority of games are simply lacking in terms of inspiration, innovation, compelling gameplay or story, or anything else to set it apart and give me a reason to play.
The worth of a thing is determined by what people will pay for it.
For any single product that's true, statistically it makes the two classes (games and movies) comparable.
I don't think you'll earnestly want to argue that 1 hour of movie entertainment is in general worth multiple hours of gaming entertainment. There are good and bad movies and games, but if you compare those of similar quality, the fact stands that the game will give you more for your money. Whether you want more of course depends on you - I gather that gaming doesn't seem to really entertain you for the most part.
No, that's how price is determined, not worth.
Depends on the movie and depends on the game. Some games with lots of content are good (if they're well made), others are filled with trash content that is a waste of time to go through. Same with movies, there are some fantastic 75 minute cinematic experiences, and there are some that drag on for 3+ hours and do not successfully utilize their resources into a good movie. And vice versa.
If it's a good game, sure, but we're talking averages here and the average game is not good, so needing to play even more tedious uninspired levels doesn't add any value, it in fact just makes it a bigger waste of time.
I actually love gaming, and I wish more consumers would have higher standards to not enable the terrible practices of the industry.