It's like you don't understand that these bombers were mass produced before ICBMs were developed. It's just an example of legacy tech that US overinvested in. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, and it shows. 😂
B52s were mas produced, only 21 b2s were built. B2s started in 97, after icbms. Which are you taking about?
So are stealth bombers effective? If so, you don't need hypersonics against land targets. If not, China is wasting billions on the h20. You can't have it both ways.
If you don't understand the advantage a hypersonic weapon has over a stealth bomber, I really can't help you. 😂
But why both? They offer the same penetration capability.
They clearly don't. Hypersonics can hit targets from a huge range in minutes, and they're nearly impossible to stop. This has been proven in actual use. They're also much easier to hide, cheaper to maintain and to produce. In fact, hypesonic weapons is precisely what you'd use to take out bombers on an airfield. These are just a few obvious things off top of my head. There's been plenty written on the subject by many experts. Maybe go read up on that instead of trolling here?
So why build the h20 if it doesn't need to be stealth?
It's like asking why have a hammer and a screwdriver. Absolutely incredible that you can't understand that different tools have different uses. I mean you've literally just disproved your whole thesis here. If bombers served the same purpose as hypersonics, then China would just build stealth bombers. Instead, they're producing both. The reality is that you're just coping with the fact that US is falling behind technologically.
What use case does a hypersonic fill that the US needs? Seems like you were saying ground air defense (like s400) penetration, but that's what stealth bombers do. Or if stealth bombers don't do that, what do they do?
Anyway, why do you think is the reason the US doesn't have hypersonics, and why is that reason is the same as why they won't put shark skin in their engines?
Nobody has actually seen a stealth bomber do that in practice. In fact, this is what happened last time US tried using one
Anyway, why do you think is the reason the US doesn’t have hypersonics, and why is that reason is the same as why they won’t put shark skin in their engines?
Because US is technologically behind due to having a piss poor education system and not being able to poach talent from around the world the way it used to. US is a decaying empire that's spiralling the drain right now.
Check the operational history section on the b2 page, it's got a bunch of stuff since 2000.
But again, why would Russia and China be designing/building stealth bombers if they don't actually work?
I agree about the education system. But they've still got a ton of engineering talent. China is catching up, but they're retreading tech the US has had for a while. But it is still very impressive how fast they are catching up.
Check the operational history section on the b2 page, it’s got a bunch of stuff since 2000.
When again has B2 come in contact with actual air defence?
But again, why would Russia and China be designing/building stealth bombers if they don’t actually work?
Because they both serve a different purpose. Stealth bombers do have a lower profile than regular jets, so theoretically they can get closer to the target. However, the bombs that B2 drops can also be intercepted even if B2 itself isn't. So, launching hypersonics from a stealth fighter is still obviously advantageous.
2011 in Libya b2 was also used. Libya had hundreds of sam launchers, so I assume that was contested, though I can't find as good of a breakdown as the other two.
Kosovo also had about a hundred sam missiles. Again I couldn't find as good of a breakdown on where exactly the b2s flew relative to them.
So those are some times b2 has come into contact with air defense. Do you have any sources that they haven't come into contact with air defense assets?
Hypersonics (at least the maneuverable boost glide versions China has) need to get into the upper atmosphere before coming back down gaining momentum. That means they effectively have a minimum range to get up to speed. That minimum range is already larger than any heavily contested air defense zone, making stealth on the carrier aircraft redundant.
Again, Iraq and Libya were not a technologically advanced nation by any stretch of imagination. The air defences you've listed are ancient, and have little to do with what modern systems are capable of.
The stealth tech reduces the signature, but it doesn't make it go away entirely, and it's vulnerable to different types of radars working in combination. Furthermore, nowadays there is a lot of other telemetry that can be integrated such as heat, and sound waves it produces, and all this data can be analyzed by a computer in real time to pinpoint it.
Hypersonics (at least the maneuverable boost glide versions China has) need to get into the upper atmosphere before coming back down gaining momentum. That means they effectively have a minimum range to get up to speed. That minimum range is already larger than any heavily contested air defense zone, making stealth on the carrier aircraft redundant.
China has a range of hypersonics the same way Russia does because they do tech transfer with each other. Russia has been launching hypersonics from ground, air, and sea, and these have been an absolute nightmare for NATO defences in Ukraine.
One other huge advantage of hypersonics is that they give very little reaction time to the enemy. Launching a bomber and waiting for it to get to the target literally takes hours. A hypersonic missile can hit within 5 minutes. This means that an integrated system can use a satellite to detect a target, such as a B2 landing on the airfield, and notify appropriate launch system to eliminate it, and a hypersonic missile will come down on it within 5 minutes from over a thousand km range.
It's like you don't understand that these bombers were mass produced before ICBMs were developed. It's just an example of legacy tech that US overinvested in. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, and it shows. 😂
B52s were mas produced, only 21 b2s were built. B2s started in 97, after icbms. Which are you taking about?
So are stealth bombers effective? If so, you don't need hypersonics against land targets. If not, China is wasting billions on the h20. You can't have it both ways.
If you don't understand the advantage a hypersonic weapon has over a stealth bomber, I really can't help you. 😂
But why both? They offer the same penetration capability.
They clearly don't. Hypersonics can hit targets from a huge range in minutes, and they're nearly impossible to stop. This has been proven in actual use. They're also much easier to hide, cheaper to maintain and to produce. In fact, hypesonic weapons is precisely what you'd use to take out bombers on an airfield. These are just a few obvious things off top of my head. There's been plenty written on the subject by many experts. Maybe go read up on that instead of trolling here?
So why build the h20 if it doesn't need to be stealth?
It's like asking why have a hammer and a screwdriver. Absolutely incredible that you can't understand that different tools have different uses. I mean you've literally just disproved your whole thesis here. If bombers served the same purpose as hypersonics, then China would just build stealth bombers. Instead, they're producing both. The reality is that you're just coping with the fact that US is falling behind technologically.
What use case does a hypersonic fill that the US needs? Seems like you were saying ground air defense (like s400) penetration, but that's what stealth bombers do. Or if stealth bombers don't do that, what do they do?
Anyway, why do you think is the reason the US doesn't have hypersonics, and why is that reason is the same as why they won't put shark skin in their engines?
Nobody has actually seen a stealth bomber do that in practice. In fact, this is what happened last time US tried using one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown
Because US is technologically behind due to having a piss poor education system and not being able to poach talent from around the world the way it used to. US is a decaying empire that's spiralling the drain right now.
Check the operational history section on the b2 page, it's got a bunch of stuff since 2000.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_B-2_Spirit
But again, why would Russia and China be designing/building stealth bombers if they don't actually work?
I agree about the education system. But they've still got a ton of engineering talent. China is catching up, but they're retreading tech the US has had for a while. But it is still very impressive how fast they are catching up.
When again has B2 come in contact with actual air defence?
Because they both serve a different purpose. Stealth bombers do have a lower profile than regular jets, so theoretically they can get closer to the target. However, the bombs that B2 drops can also be intercepted even if B2 itself isn't. So, launching hypersonics from a stealth fighter is still obviously advantageous.
Catching up?
Seems to me like China has plenty of tech, like hypersonic missiles, that US doesn't have. Here are a few more examples for you
https://interestingengineering.com/military/china-next-gen-submarine-detection
even a US propaganda outlet is admitting that China is surpassing the US in military tech https://www.voanews.com/a/china-establishing-commanding-lead-with-key-military-technologies-/7124026.html
It's f117, but with good planning they penetrated into bagdad, the most heavily defended city at that point, undetected.
https://youtu.be/zxRgfBXn6Mg
Though it wasn't quite as heavily defended in 2003, b2s and f117s did quite well against bagdad in enduring freedom.
https://youtu.be/Atm8D5uqr-k
2011 in Libya b2 was also used. Libya had hundreds of sam launchers, so I assume that was contested, though I can't find as good of a breakdown as the other two.
Kosovo also had about a hundred sam missiles. Again I couldn't find as good of a breakdown on where exactly the b2s flew relative to them.
So those are some times b2 has come into contact with air defense. Do you have any sources that they haven't come into contact with air defense assets?
Hypersonics (at least the maneuverable boost glide versions China has) need to get into the upper atmosphere before coming back down gaining momentum. That means they effectively have a minimum range to get up to speed. That minimum range is already larger than any heavily contested air defense zone, making stealth on the carrier aircraft redundant.
Again, Iraq and Libya were not a technologically advanced nation by any stretch of imagination. The air defences you've listed are ancient, and have little to do with what modern systems are capable of.
The stealth tech reduces the signature, but it doesn't make it go away entirely, and it's vulnerable to different types of radars working in combination. Furthermore, nowadays there is a lot of other telemetry that can be integrated such as heat, and sound waves it produces, and all this data can be analyzed by a computer in real time to pinpoint it.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/224179944_Countering_Stealth_with_Passive_Multi-static_Low_Frequency_Radars
https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/08/10/hensoldt-unveils-a-deployable-package-of-its-twinvis-passive-radar/
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2019/10/02/a-german-company-detected-the-invisible-f-35-with-its-own-radar-technology/
China has a range of hypersonics the same way Russia does because they do tech transfer with each other. Russia has been launching hypersonics from ground, air, and sea, and these have been an absolute nightmare for NATO defences in Ukraine.
One other huge advantage of hypersonics is that they give very little reaction time to the enemy. Launching a bomber and waiting for it to get to the target literally takes hours. A hypersonic missile can hit within 5 minutes. This means that an integrated system can use a satellite to detect a target, such as a B2 landing on the airfield, and notify appropriate launch system to eliminate it, and a hypersonic missile will come down on it within 5 minutes from over a thousand km range.
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