And yet you can't think of one other marginalized group of people where every time a finger is pointed at them, people claim the person doing the pointing is part of that group.
Curious that you don't find that problematic despite having no other examples.
Self-hate is a funny thing.
I wonder if that's a "law" yet ala Goodwin, Winslow, Murphy, etc. "The hate a person has for a group is proportionate to the amount of "denied/repressed belonging" that same person has to said group."
See, this sounds like you're saying queer people are the cause of homophobia, which is exactly what my point was.
That's not my intention and I'm sorry you took it that way.
I believe that was not your intention, but that is what makes it so problematic. When you suggest that most or all homophobes are queer, you're suggesting that homophobia is an internal problem, not an external one, even if you don't realize that's what you're doing. Because the inference to be made there is that if you really hate queer people, you can't be cishet.
you’re suggesting that homophobia is an internal problem,
I believe homophobia (and basically all other hate) is mostly an internal (mental) problem, you don't?
the inference to be made there is that if you really hate queer people, you can't be cishet.
Ah I get it now, I guess I disagree with that inference but I see how it follows. More honestly I would say that most people aren't 100% straight/cishet and sexual fluidity is extremely common (though we're only becoming aware of it now) so the inference would be correct and most people wouldn't be homophobic.
Internal as in only involving queer people.
The point is it gives any cishet bigot an excuse to be homophobic because they aren't queer so it's okay. It's not bigotry.
The point is it gives any cishet bigot an excuse to be homophobic because they aren’t queer
If we're following it logically, they hate themselves at least in part because they're queer; it's self-hatred but they can be a self-hating bigot, they're not mutually exclusive.
Again, this suggests that you cannot be cishet and bigoted against queer people. That the only people bigoted against queer people are themselves queer. Therefore anything someone who is cishet says about queer people no matter how offensive cannot be homophobic by virtue of having been said by a cishet person.
That's just basic extrapolation from such reasoning.
anything someone who is cishet says about queer people no matter how offensive cannot be homophobic by virtue of having been said by a cishet person
No, because the moment they say something homophobic they're queer thus not cishet, though they can still be bigots, it's a Catch-22, that's the point, to call the bigot the thing they hate.
Except that the person saying the homophobic thing knows they aren't queer. Which means what they said can't possibly be homophobic.
Let me put it this way- there is zero evidence that Charlie Kirk is anything but cishet. Now... we can draw attention to the issue of bigotry by just pointing out that he's a bigot or we can put the blame of bigotry on queer people themselves in some silly attempt at a gotcha.
I would say that the former is both less childish and less harmful to queer people.
Except that the person saying the homophobic thing knows they aren’t queer.
Do they though do their peers? Does anyone? Again sexual fluidity is extremely common throughout our lives.
Let me put it this way- there is zero evidence that Charlie Kirk is anything but cishet.
I honestly can't imagine him being with a woman so I disagree.
Now… we can draw attention to the issue of bigotry by just pointing out that he’s a bigot
Yes.
or we can put the blame of bigotry on queer people themselves in some silly attempt at a gotcha.
I would say we put it on the bigot that said it, Charlie Kirk and not on any broad groups at all.
I would say that the former is both less childish
It's fun to be childish sometimes.
and less harmful to queer people.
I'm not sure it harms queer people at all Squid.
See, again, you're saying that the only people who are homophobic are queer and it's no different from saying the only people who are ableist are disabled or the only people who are antisemitic are Jewish. I wish you could understand that.
And yet you can't think of one other marginalized group of people where every time a finger is pointed at them, people claim the person doing the pointing is part of that group.
Curious that you don't find that problematic despite having no other examples.
Self-hate is a funny thing.
I wonder if that's a "law" yet ala Goodwin, Winslow, Murphy, etc. "The hate a person has for a group is proportionate to the amount of "denied/repressed belonging" that same person has to said group."
See, this sounds like you're saying queer people are the cause of homophobia, which is exactly what my point was.
That's not my intention and I'm sorry you took it that way.
I believe that was not your intention, but that is what makes it so problematic. When you suggest that most or all homophobes are queer, you're suggesting that homophobia is an internal problem, not an external one, even if you don't realize that's what you're doing. Because the inference to be made there is that if you really hate queer people, you can't be cishet.
I believe homophobia (and basically all other hate) is mostly an internal (mental) problem, you don't?
Ah I get it now, I guess I disagree with that inference but I see how it follows. More honestly I would say that most people aren't 100% straight/cishet and sexual fluidity is extremely common (though we're only becoming aware of it now) so the inference would be correct and most people wouldn't be homophobic.
Internal as in only involving queer people.
The point is it gives any cishet bigot an excuse to be homophobic because they aren't queer so it's okay. It's not bigotry.
If we're following it logically, they hate themselves at least in part because they're queer; it's self-hatred but they can be a self-hating bigot, they're not mutually exclusive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internalized_oppression
Again, this suggests that you cannot be cishet and bigoted against queer people. That the only people bigoted against queer people are themselves queer. Therefore anything someone who is cishet says about queer people no matter how offensive cannot be homophobic by virtue of having been said by a cishet person.
That's just basic extrapolation from such reasoning.
No, because the moment they say something homophobic they're queer thus not cishet, though they can still be bigots, it's a Catch-22, that's the point, to call the bigot the thing they hate.
Except that the person saying the homophobic thing knows they aren't queer. Which means what they said can't possibly be homophobic.
Let me put it this way- there is zero evidence that Charlie Kirk is anything but cishet. Now... we can draw attention to the issue of bigotry by just pointing out that he's a bigot or we can put the blame of bigotry on queer people themselves in some silly attempt at a gotcha.
I would say that the former is both less childish and less harmful to queer people.
Do they though do their peers? Does anyone? Again sexual fluidity is extremely common throughout our lives.
I honestly can't imagine him being with a woman so I disagree.
Yes.
I would say we put it on the bigot that said it, Charlie Kirk and not on any broad groups at all.
It's fun to be childish sometimes.
I'm not sure it harms queer people at all Squid.
See, again, you're saying that the only people who are homophobic are queer and it's no different from saying the only people who are ableist are disabled or the only people who are antisemitic are Jewish. I wish you could understand that.