Yes. The time and place to confront hate is the time and place where hate is. And that is true whether or not there is an unrelated genocide on the other side of the world. For the same reason I gave about Asian-Americans and Uyghurs. The genocide there is happening right now. That does not lessen bigotry that other Asians suffer in other parts of the world or make it less worth talking about.
Comparing what china is doing as a UN security counsel member with some black guy in NYC knocking an asian granny is a bit disingenuous... similar to what is happening with Israel and "antisemitism" fake news campaign.
Comparing them how? Comparing genocide to bigotry? I'm not. I'm saying both need to be talked about.
Antisemitism is real. I've personally experienced it many times. It has nothing to do with Israel on my end because I don't support Israel.
Prejudice is real, antisemitism is just a small subset of that also... within US we have other groups of people who are face a lot more of it vis a vis domestic jewish population
But all we hear since Oct 7, is about this specific issue...
It is dilatory and it is bad faith behavior by the media cartel.
within US we have other groups of people who are face a lot more of it vis a vis domestic jewish population
Is it a 'who gets treated worse' contest? Isn't all bigotry equally bad?
But all we hear since Oct 7, is about this specific issue…
All you hear, maybe. I hear about all kinds of bigotry. For example, the multiple articles about how Trump is being incredibly racist that come out on a virtually daily basis and they say nothing about Jews.
It is dilatory and it is bad faith behavior by the media cartel.
Or is it that you just don't want to hear about it? That sounds like it's the real issue.
Exactly, I am shilling for Palestians since they are the ones who really need it now.
All this circle jerk is waste of energy.
My opinion, nothing more tho people can make their own choices and set their own priorities.
Got it. Your issue is that you don't have any problem with antisemitism despite the fact that Jews who are doing things like working with Jewish Voices for Peace are getting abused anyway.
You could have just led with that.
I gave you a positive statement and you keep trying to turn into something it is not... by inverting the statement. This is a logic fallacy FYI
within US we have other groups of people who are face a lot more of it vis a vis domestic jewish population
Was it this?
Prejudice is real, antisemitism is just a small subset of that also… within US we have other groups of people who are face a lot more of it vis a vis domestic jewish population
Because all of that sure sounds like you don't have a big problem with antisemitism.
I am shilling for Palestians
And you can only care about one issue in the world at a time? Really?
Because I don't see anyone in this thread denying the Palestinian genocide. So if that's what you're shilling for, maybe do it in a more appropriate place and don't invalidate the bigotry that I've experienced and others have experienced. You really sound like you're coming from a place of privilege here.
don't invalidate the bigotry that I've experienced and others have experienced
jfc... yes let's make this about you now...
You really sound like you're coming from a place of privilege here.
Is this privilege in the room with us right now? Did dad finally come home with that pack of cigs?
It is about me. I'm a Jew. I've experienced a ton of bigotry which you don't think matters.
Is this privilege in the room with us right now? Did dad finally come home with that pack of cigs?
Ah, now it all becomes clear. You're a conservative who doesn't understand the concept of privilege despite benefiting from it.
Yeah, but you've acknowledged that antisemitism charges in the media are often being used disingenuously to discredit antizionism/support Israel's genocide. So in some cases it is less worth talking about: when it's disingenuous and the impact is to support the genocide.
Like do we really think this change in belief is mostly due to people out talking to their Jewish neighbors about rising use of slurs or threats rather than well-publicized accusations from mainstream newspapers and the president of the United States, often with questionable accusers and/or little evidence? Is the most likely outcome for a campaign to highlight antisemitism going to be increased public awareness and intervention, or just to turn public sentiment against antiwar protesters and enable more brutal responses?
So in some cases it is less worth talking about: when it’s disingenuous and the impact is to support the genocide.
That is not what the person I am talking to is saying. They aren't saying it is a some cases issue. They are saying it shouldn't be discussed at all and there reasons are that other people get treated worse than Jews are treated and that Palestinians are the victims of genocide. Neither of those are a reason not to discuss actual bigotry that happens against Jews and all other minority groups.
Suggesting any form of bigotry can just be ignored because something more important is going on in another place is ludicrous- unless you mean to suggest that the reason it can be ignored is that the people who are the subject of that bigotry deserve it because they are responsible for that more important thing. I assume you don't think that. I can't say the same for the person I was replying to.
But the issue is we're rarely discussing actual forms of bigotry in the news stories that then feed into these poll numbers. We're hearing that Joe Biden or the ADL says there's rampant antisemitism at protests, but then they don't detail what they're actually referring to and the college paper actually on the ground interviews some Jewish protesters who are unperturbed by "from the river to the sea", explain that they were blocking all students regardless of faith or ethnicity, and just find the accusation confusing.
Their comparison point for the poll was 2003, but would you expect a poll held in the aftermath of Tree of Life to be lower or higher than the current time? And what percentage of those poll respondents would say antisemitism is worse on college campuses or conservative Facebook groups? I think we're getting a true and correct belief ("antisemitism is a problem"), but due to propaganda campaigns for the genocide, not actual increased awareness of bigotry.
If the media is tacking on "antisemitism is rampant" on every news story reporting on anti-Israel protests, but don't feel it's necessary when Republicans welcome in proponents of the Great Replacement Theory with open arms, it's hard to say the effect is actually increasing the awareness of bigotry. FFS, Elise "Great Replacement" Stefanik was the poster child for the Republican antisemitism task force and I only saw it mentioned in the most progressive media. And if the primary effect isn't raising awareness (one my say making people more "woke"), it's entirely appropriate to measure the limited or non-existent pro-wokeness impact against the very visible pro-genocide impact.
And yet, long before Israel started this genocide, I have been told that about every news story about antisemitism no matter what has happened.
Even after Tree of Life, which you brought up, I was told that the news was talking too much about that when Palestinians were suffering as if you couldn't talk about both.
Yes. The time and place to confront hate is the time and place where hate is. And that is true whether or not there is an unrelated genocide on the other side of the world. For the same reason I gave about Asian-Americans and Uyghurs. The genocide there is happening right now. That does not lessen bigotry that other Asians suffer in other parts of the world or make it less worth talking about.
Comparing what china is doing as a UN security counsel member with some black guy in NYC knocking an asian granny is a bit disingenuous... similar to what is happening with Israel and "antisemitism" fake news campaign.
Comparing them how? Comparing genocide to bigotry? I'm not. I'm saying both need to be talked about.
Antisemitism is real. I've personally experienced it many times. It has nothing to do with Israel on my end because I don't support Israel.
Prejudice is real, antisemitism is just a small subset of that also... within US we have other groups of people who are face a lot more of it vis a vis domestic jewish population
But all we hear since Oct 7, is about this specific issue...
It is dilatory and it is bad faith behavior by the media cartel.
Is it a 'who gets treated worse' contest? Isn't all bigotry equally bad?
All you hear, maybe. I hear about all kinds of bigotry. For example, the multiple articles about how Trump is being incredibly racist that come out on a virtually daily basis and they say nothing about Jews.
Or is it that you just don't want to hear about it? That sounds like it's the real issue.
Exactly, I am shilling for Palestians since they are the ones who really need it now.
All this circle jerk is waste of energy.
My opinion, nothing more tho people can make their own choices and set their own priorities.
Got it. Your issue is that you don't have any problem with antisemitism despite the fact that Jews who are doing things like working with Jewish Voices for Peace are getting abused anyway.
You could have just led with that.
I gave you a positive statement and you keep trying to turn into something it is not... by inverting the statement. This is a logic fallacy FYI
How many jews died today in the US?
https://kbin.run/m/collapse@slrpnk.net/t/526810/White-Nebraska-man-shoots-and-wounds-7-Guatemalan-immigrant-neighbors
Which one was the positive statement?
Was it this?
Was it this?
Was it this?
Because all of that sure sounds like you don't have a big problem with antisemitism.
I am shilling for Palestians
And you can only care about one issue in the world at a time? Really?
Because I don't see anyone in this thread denying the Palestinian genocide. So if that's what you're shilling for, maybe do it in a more appropriate place and don't invalidate the bigotry that I've experienced and others have experienced. You really sound like you're coming from a place of privilege here.
jfc... yes let's make this about you now...
Is this privilege in the room with us right now? Did dad finally come home with that pack of cigs?
It is about me. I'm a Jew. I've experienced a ton of bigotry which you don't think matters.
Ah, now it all becomes clear. You're a conservative who doesn't understand the concept of privilege despite benefiting from it.
Yeah, but you've acknowledged that antisemitism charges in the media are often being used disingenuously to discredit antizionism/support Israel's genocide. So in some cases it is less worth talking about: when it's disingenuous and the impact is to support the genocide.
Like do we really think this change in belief is mostly due to people out talking to their Jewish neighbors about rising use of slurs or threats rather than well-publicized accusations from mainstream newspapers and the president of the United States, often with questionable accusers and/or little evidence? Is the most likely outcome for a campaign to highlight antisemitism going to be increased public awareness and intervention, or just to turn public sentiment against antiwar protesters and enable more brutal responses?
That is not what the person I am talking to is saying. They aren't saying it is a some cases issue. They are saying it shouldn't be discussed at all and there reasons are that other people get treated worse than Jews are treated and that Palestinians are the victims of genocide. Neither of those are a reason not to discuss actual bigotry that happens against Jews and all other minority groups.
Suggesting any form of bigotry can just be ignored because something more important is going on in another place is ludicrous- unless you mean to suggest that the reason it can be ignored is that the people who are the subject of that bigotry deserve it because they are responsible for that more important thing. I assume you don't think that. I can't say the same for the person I was replying to.
But the issue is we're rarely discussing actual forms of bigotry in the news stories that then feed into these poll numbers. We're hearing that Joe Biden or the ADL says there's rampant antisemitism at protests, but then they don't detail what they're actually referring to and the college paper actually on the ground interviews some Jewish protesters who are unperturbed by "from the river to the sea", explain that they were blocking all students regardless of faith or ethnicity, and just find the accusation confusing.
Their comparison point for the poll was 2003, but would you expect a poll held in the aftermath of Tree of Life to be lower or higher than the current time? And what percentage of those poll respondents would say antisemitism is worse on college campuses or conservative Facebook groups? I think we're getting a true and correct belief ("antisemitism is a problem"), but due to propaganda campaigns for the genocide, not actual increased awareness of bigotry.
If the media is tacking on "antisemitism is rampant" on every news story reporting on anti-Israel protests, but don't feel it's necessary when Republicans welcome in proponents of the Great Replacement Theory with open arms, it's hard to say the effect is actually increasing the awareness of bigotry. FFS, Elise "Great Replacement" Stefanik was the poster child for the Republican antisemitism task force and I only saw it mentioned in the most progressive media. And if the primary effect isn't raising awareness (one my say making people more "woke"), it's entirely appropriate to measure the limited or non-existent pro-wokeness impact against the very visible pro-genocide impact.
And yet, long before Israel started this genocide, I have been told that about every news story about antisemitism no matter what has happened.
Even after Tree of Life, which you brought up, I was told that the news was talking too much about that when Palestinians were suffering as if you couldn't talk about both.