He got out to yell at some vandals and he got beat. If he could protect himself, the right people would have been punished. The man had his entire life in that car, he was probably not in the best place mentally. Why was that his life? What about him? You seem to be siding with the criminals because the victim wanted to stop a crime.
He got out to yell at some vandals and he got beat. If he could protect himself, the right people would have been punished.
Just so I understand your position: Are you saying justice is served when a plastic bottle is thrown at a car (which caused zero damage) should result in the bottle thrower and those with the bottle thrower being shot (possibly to death)?
So you understand justice is served when some guy gets out of the car to yell at you, and you and your friends beat him near death and destroy and steal everything he owns?
You didn't contradict what I heard you say, so I'll take that as I understood you right.
So you understand justice is served when some guy gets out of the car to yell at you, and you and your friends beat him near death and destroy and steal everything he owns?
No, but I'm glad you're recognizing that there are differences in the level of actions and that can constitute a reasonable response. Keep building on that:
Throwing a plastic bottle at a vehicle which results in no damage should NOT result in a vigilante sentence of death.
Yelling at someone should NOT result in them being assaulted, their property damaged and stolen.
So how can either of these things be avoided?
The bottle thrower could choose to NOT throw the bottle
The yeller could choose NOT stop and yell.
Look at that! At the end of the day there's no property damage and no deaths of anyone!
You’re right. It didn’t become an issue until they beat him. And beating someone for yelling at your crime, big or small, should result in them also being beaten.
You’re right. It didn’t become an issue until they beat him.
So the bottle thrower had a chance to avoid this, and the yeller had a chance to avoid this. Neither chose the avoid it. Both chose to escalate it.
And beating someone for yelling at your crime, big or small, should result in them also being beaten.
Nope. You're pretending that all people act rationally. If you expect that, you're going to be disappointed. Not all people do that. Sorry, that's life. So if you are involved in a situation like this, that doesn't make it morally right for you to shoot someone, which is your position as stated before.
The the bottle thrower shouldn't have thrown. The yeller shouldn't have yelled, and nobody would be talking about this right now because nothing would have happened.
Maybe if she didn’t dress sexy. Maybe if that black man wasn’t in the wrong neighborhood. Maybe if they spoke better English. Maybe if they they didn’t speak up… they wouldn’t have been hurt.
Blocked.
Maybe if she didn’t dress sexy.
I am offended that you think dressing sexy is an act of escalation to being raped.
Blocked.
Ah thank goodness! You've made my day better. I don't have to hold my nose anymore when you say its acceptable to shoot people that throw a plastic bottle at a car that creates zero damage.
I'm not saying they where right for beating him, I'm saying getting out of your car and escalating things isn't helping anything.
If a mob comes to beat your ass, potentially to death, and you shoot someone to prevent it, yeah that's justified (and probably should be legally), but it isn't justice. You don't get to be fucking Judge Dredd, and act like self-defense puts you on some moral high-ground. You are not a stand-in for the legal system, which in and of itself is already incredibly flawed.
If you left your car and started shouting at them like a fuckwit before doing so, you might not deserve the beat down but you did kind of earn it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You're not going to accomplish anything by yelling at that crowd other than painting a target on your back.
I think the stupid game is throwing the bottle.
There are two kinds of people. The ones who blame the bad guy, and the ones who blame the victim for getting mad at the bad guy.
Both can be dipshits.
There are lots of kinds of people, for example, you're the sort that fails to see nuance. If you did you wouldn't be putting everything into a right or wrong binary. Talking about 'justice' being when the 'right' people get punished like a fucking child.
Nuance. lol. “Maybe if the victim had not spoken up, they wouldn’t get beat.”
Nothing says nuance like heavily simplifying paragraphs down to a byte that sounds supportive of your argument. Yeah let's ignore the fact he pulled over, got out of his car, and started antagonizing an already angry mob. Fuck off with your strawman bullshit.
Uulu said one of the teens threw a bottle of liquid that hit the passenger side of his car as he passed by them. He then drove through the intersection before pulling over and getting out of his car.
"Now, I realize that was a big mistake," he said.
Bazarbai Uulu said the teens started to surround him before one of the suspects, who was wearing a mask, approached him. At that time, he started running away, and several teens chased him.
Getting out of the car is not antagonizing. Fuck off with your victim blaming.
My point isn't that its his fault. My point is that of you're going to be the sort of person to carry a gun, you should be the sort of person to look at this situation and say "If I get out, there is a good chance I could be put in a position where I have to use my gun. Maybe I should fucking avoid that."
I agree that gun owners should feel that way.
Then it sounds like the solution isn't him owning a gun, the solution, save for fixing the societal issues that cause an angry mob of teenagers to do this, is to not get out of the car.
Does that mean he deserved it, or that its his fault? No, but the best answer would to be the bigger person, eat the fact that a dipshit kid threw a water bottle at your car, and go about your life.
So now it’s society? Just blame the fucking teenagers!!!
Jesus Christ dude what is it with this childish, immature, and broken sense of justice? Why does there need to be some fucking bogeyman to blame. You ever consider that maybe that most shitty things in the world are the result of a large collection of factors. Some accident, some by mistake, others deliberately with malicious intent.
The only way to ever see justice, actual honest to god justice, not your fun house mirror interpretation, is to actually sit down and so the work. I mean honest to god, transparent, consider all the fucking facts equally, look at everyone as an individual, justice. The sort of shit the courts should be, but probably never will.
Did you and me do shit like that as teenagers? No but you and I most likely had adults looking out for us, if not most of your friends did.
The fact you have this many kids doing this shit says that there's enough without guidance for mob mentality to take over like that. That, as far as I'm concerned, says something about the state of that community. Which in and of itself says something of the society of which it exists in.
If you've got a giant mob of people who aren't old enough to legally consider adults going around doing shit like that, yeah there's some fucking societal ills. That sort of shit doesn't happen in a vacuum because some kids felt like being assholes, or better yet it does because no one was there to teach them better.
That's what happens when you have a bunch of young people full of piss, vinegar, and hormones and no one to help, and no promise of a future.
Does that justify what they did or make it not wrong? No, its just that trying to police people harder isn't going to prevent this from happening, shooting into the crowd wouldnt have prevented that mob from forming either. Giving those kids the resources they need and a shot at a future before they became an angry mob? That might've actually prevented it.
He got out to yell at some vandals and he got beat. If he could protect himself, the right people would have been punished. The man had his entire life in that car, he was probably not in the best place mentally. Why was that his life? What about him? You seem to be siding with the criminals because the victim wanted to stop a crime.
Just so I understand your position: Are you saying justice is served when a plastic bottle is thrown at a car (which caused zero damage) should result in the bottle thrower and those with the bottle thrower being shot (possibly to death)?
So you understand justice is served when some guy gets out of the car to yell at you, and you and your friends beat him near death and destroy and steal everything he owns?
You didn't contradict what I heard you say, so I'll take that as I understood you right.
No, but I'm glad you're recognizing that there are differences in the level of actions and that can constitute a reasonable response. Keep building on that:
So how can either of these things be avoided?
Look at that! At the end of the day there's no property damage and no deaths of anyone!
You’re right. It didn’t become an issue until they beat him. And beating someone for yelling at your crime, big or small, should result in them also being beaten.
So the bottle thrower had a chance to avoid this, and the yeller had a chance to avoid this. Neither chose the avoid it. Both chose to escalate it.
Nope. You're pretending that all people act rationally. If you expect that, you're going to be disappointed. Not all people do that. Sorry, that's life. So if you are involved in a situation like this, that doesn't make it morally right for you to shoot someone, which is your position as stated before.
The the bottle thrower shouldn't have thrown. The yeller shouldn't have yelled, and nobody would be talking about this right now because nothing would have happened.
Maybe if she didn’t dress sexy. Maybe if that black man wasn’t in the wrong neighborhood. Maybe if they spoke better English. Maybe if they they didn’t speak up… they wouldn’t have been hurt.
Blocked.
I am offended that you think dressing sexy is an act of escalation to being raped.
Ah thank goodness! You've made my day better. I don't have to hold my nose anymore when you say its acceptable to shoot people that throw a plastic bottle at a car that creates zero damage.
I'm not saying they where right for beating him, I'm saying getting out of your car and escalating things isn't helping anything.
If a mob comes to beat your ass, potentially to death, and you shoot someone to prevent it, yeah that's justified (and probably should be legally), but it isn't justice. You don't get to be fucking Judge Dredd, and act like self-defense puts you on some moral high-ground. You are not a stand-in for the legal system, which in and of itself is already incredibly flawed.
If you left your car and started shouting at them like a fuckwit before doing so, you might not deserve the beat down but you did kind of earn it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You're not going to accomplish anything by yelling at that crowd other than painting a target on your back.
I think the stupid game is throwing the bottle.
There are two kinds of people. The ones who blame the bad guy, and the ones who blame the victim for getting mad at the bad guy.
Both can be dipshits.
There are lots of kinds of people, for example, you're the sort that fails to see nuance. If you did you wouldn't be putting everything into a right or wrong binary. Talking about 'justice' being when the 'right' people get punished like a fucking child.
Nuance. lol. “Maybe if the victim had not spoken up, they wouldn’t get beat.”
Nothing says nuance like heavily simplifying paragraphs down to a byte that sounds supportive of your argument. Yeah let's ignore the fact he pulled over, got out of his car, and started antagonizing an already angry mob. Fuck off with your strawman bullshit.
Getting out of the car is not antagonizing. Fuck off with your victim blaming.
My point isn't that its his fault. My point is that of you're going to be the sort of person to carry a gun, you should be the sort of person to look at this situation and say "If I get out, there is a good chance I could be put in a position where I have to use my gun. Maybe I should fucking avoid that."
I agree that gun owners should feel that way.
Then it sounds like the solution isn't him owning a gun, the solution, save for fixing the societal issues that cause an angry mob of teenagers to do this, is to not get out of the car.
Does that mean he deserved it, or that its his fault? No, but the best answer would to be the bigger person, eat the fact that a dipshit kid threw a water bottle at your car, and go about your life.
So now it’s society? Just blame the fucking teenagers!!!
Jesus Christ dude what is it with this childish, immature, and broken sense of justice? Why does there need to be some fucking bogeyman to blame. You ever consider that maybe that most shitty things in the world are the result of a large collection of factors. Some accident, some by mistake, others deliberately with malicious intent.
The only way to ever see justice, actual honest to god justice, not your fun house mirror interpretation, is to actually sit down and so the work. I mean honest to god, transparent, consider all the fucking facts equally, look at everyone as an individual, justice. The sort of shit the courts should be, but probably never will.
Did you and me do shit like that as teenagers? No but you and I most likely had adults looking out for us, if not most of your friends did. The fact you have this many kids doing this shit says that there's enough without guidance for mob mentality to take over like that. That, as far as I'm concerned, says something about the state of that community. Which in and of itself says something of the society of which it exists in.
If you've got a giant mob of people who aren't old enough to legally consider adults going around doing shit like that, yeah there's some fucking societal ills. That sort of shit doesn't happen in a vacuum because some kids felt like being assholes, or better yet it does because no one was there to teach them better.
That's what happens when you have a bunch of young people full of piss, vinegar, and hormones and no one to help, and no promise of a future.
Does that justify what they did or make it not wrong? No, its just that trying to police people harder isn't going to prevent this from happening, shooting into the crowd wouldnt have prevented that mob from forming either. Giving those kids the resources they need and a shot at a future before they became an angry mob? That might've actually prevented it.
Too long. Not gonna read.
what crime was he trying to stop? the kids threw a plastic bottle and it hit his car. like oops oh well, move along Mr. Uluu
It’s totally the victim’s fault. Obviously.