Oh, we've known. There just isn't anything we can do about it.
You can organize.
Like we did with Occupy Wall Street or are doing now for Palestine?
No, harder. Much, much harder.
OWS crumbled in ways right out of various leaked three letter agency guides to disrupting grass roots movements.
I'd love to see it get another try, with how news sources have become far more decentralized. Less opportunity for major news orgs to kill the momentum.
Full disclosure, the destruction of OWS is pretty much the one thing I allow myself to go "full tinfoil hat" over.
Covid protests and jan6... There is a always some fed running this things even ifntheu start organically.
OWS was not well-organized. Palestinian solidarity groups are doing better. The key difference is in being able to coherently make informed decisions as a group and then act on them as one.
Every OWS encampment was basically 5-30 orgs all doing their own thing and then fighting about horizontalism and being naive about how the cops and City Hall would treat them. We need to be able to act like 1-3 orgs (even if there are more), politically educate so we can avoid mistakes, and create good structure as early as possible so that expectations are set and time isn't wasted and bad decisions are avoided.
The US left is basically slowly relearning the basics of organizing. Get involved and make it go faster!
I'm not American, but generally exploite people can't afford to miss work.
The bolsheviks managed to, as have other revolutionary groups.
If you are doing this shot at a gun point, you are no better than the regime you are fighting
What a clown take to glorify Bolsheviks' crimes.
How is this anymore acceptable than "people voted for Hitler" shit?
If you are doing this shot at a gun point, you are no better than the regime you are fighting
Oppressed people have the right to use violence to liberate themselves. Were the Haitian Slaves wrong for killing their Masters? Was John Brown wrong for killing Slave Owners? Were the French wrong for killing the Monarchy? Were the Bolsheviks wrong for killing the Tsar? Are Palestinians wrong for killing the IDF?
Violence is a tool that should be used sparingly and carefully, yes. It should be avoided, if possible. However, if non-violence is proven to not work, then that leaves violence, or threat of violence, as the remaining path.
The idea that using violence against oppressors makes you "no better than them" is useless moralism used to justify an extremely violent system that daily beats its subjects.
What a clown take to glorify Bolsheviks' crimes.
Was it a crime to liberate Russia from the brutal Tsars and pull Russia out of the highly unpopular and bloody World War I?
How is this anymore acceptable than "people voted for Hitler" shit?
What on Earth are you talking about? Why are you comparing liberatory violence with voting in Hitler?
After they killed the czars, they turned on the people.
That's the part tankie won't teach you folks but a quick Wikipedia search should explain to you what they did to the peasants, esp in Ukraine and Kazakhstan
After they killed the czars, they turned on the people.
Yea, they helped the people by ending famines, doubling life expectancy, getting to 99% literacy rates, provided free college and healthcare, and democratized government.
That's the part tankie won't teach you folks but a quick Wikipedia search should explain to you what they did to the peasants, esp in Ukraine and Kazakhstan
Are you genuinely under the impression that Marxists somehow spent their entire lives avoiding western narratives around the USSR, read dozens of books on history and theory, and somehow have never once seen the western point of view? Are you specifically referring to events, or their entire history?
This is, of course, after you said using violence against oppressors makes you no better than them, which automatically makes you anti-Palestine, pro-Confederacy, anti-Haitian Slave Revolt, anti-French Revolution, and against all violent liberatory movements, if we assume you to be morally consistent.
As an example, prior to the current Russo-Ukranian conflict escalating in 2022, in 2019 62% of Ukranians said they were worse off then, than under Communism. Ukranians enjoyed being a part of the USSR more than they do being a part of the current Ukranian State.
🤡
Make some fake survey to justify fake position, ignore 100 years of history and current situation.
In a 2009 Pew survey, 62% of Ukrainians said life was worse economically nowadays compared to the Soviet era.[14] A 2013 Gallup survey showed that 56% of Ukrainians thought the dissolution of the USSR was harmful, while only 23% thought it was beneficial.[7] In a 2016 survey, 60% of Ukrainians above the age of 35 said life was better under the USSR.[8] However, by 2020, a survey from the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology showed that 34% of Ukrainians regretted the dissolution of the USSR, compared to 50% who do not regret it. Regret was highest in Eastern Ukraine where 49% of Ukrainians regretted it compared to 35% who did not, while it was lowest in Western Ukraine where only 15% regretted it compared to 69% who did not.[19]
As an example, prior to the current Russo-Ukranian conflict escalating in 2022, in 2019 62% of Ukranians said they were worse off then, than under Communism.
Bro.. Site your source properly.
Cherry picking survey to support your position while ignoring overwhelming majority voting to exit Russian clown state along with every other republic.
Saying this shit while Ukraine has to fight a war for its existance is beyond idiotic. Who do you think you covering with this?
Do you ever wonder why Warsaw pack states joined EU and NATO first chance they got?
Must be because life under Russian boot was that great lol
Cherry picking survey to support your position while ignoring overwhelming majority voting to exit Russian clown state along with every other republic.
Didn't cherry pick at all, Socialism was better for Ukranians and every group in the former USSR. Additionally, it's quite the opposite to say that most people wanted out of the USSR, the vast majority wished to retain the USSR in a popular vote. The USSR was dissolved illegally against the will of the people.
Saying this shit while Ukraine has to fight a war for its existance is beyond idiotic. Who do you think you covering with this?
Are you under the impression that the Russian Federation is somehow still Communist, or are you just racist against Russians? What's your point, here? Are you saying you hate the USSR because they were Russian, not because they were Communists, or was this just a fumbled point?
Do you ever wonder why Warsaw pack states joined EU and NATO first chance they got?
Shock Therapy destroyed these countries, 7 million people died due to the collapse of the USSR. The Warsaw Pact nations flocked to the more stable western nations as the same western nations plundered the remnants of the USSR.
Must be because life under Russian boot was that great lol
Again, as we can see, life was better under Socialism, more economically stable, and more democratic, hence why people that actually lived in the USSR have a highly consistent favorable opinion.
Please, read modern history books written after the opening of the Soviet Archives, where historians were finally granted access to internal historical evidence. Right now your only argument is just that you think Russians themselves are bad, which is blatant racism.
Y'all keep spamming these copy paste bits in bad faith.
Peopleade their choice and y'all just can't cope with it.
NO MEANS NO
No amount of y'all crying will change that.
If people thought life was so good, why no political parties in any major form present to represent this "desire"
Oh, we've known. There just isn't anything we can do about it.
You can organize.
Like we did with Occupy Wall Street or are doing now for Palestine?
No, harder. Much, much harder.
OWS crumbled in ways right out of various leaked three letter agency guides to disrupting grass roots movements.
I'd love to see it get another try, with how news sources have become far more decentralized. Less opportunity for major news orgs to kill the momentum.
Full disclosure, the destruction of OWS is pretty much the one thing I allow myself to go "full tinfoil hat" over.
Covid protests and jan6... There is a always some fed running this things even ifntheu start organically.
OWS was not well-organized. Palestinian solidarity groups are doing better. The key difference is in being able to coherently make informed decisions as a group and then act on them as one.
Every OWS encampment was basically 5-30 orgs all doing their own thing and then fighting about horizontalism and being naive about how the cops and City Hall would treat them. We need to be able to act like 1-3 orgs (even if there are more), politically educate so we can avoid mistakes, and create good structure as early as possible so that expectations are set and time isn't wasted and bad decisions are avoided.
The US left is basically slowly relearning the basics of organizing. Get involved and make it go faster!
I'm not American, but generally exploite people can't afford to miss work.
The bolsheviks managed to, as have other revolutionary groups.
If you are doing this shot at a gun point, you are no better than the regime you are fighting
What a clown take to glorify Bolsheviks' crimes.
How is this anymore acceptable than "people voted for Hitler" shit?
Oppressed people have the right to use violence to liberate themselves. Were the Haitian Slaves wrong for killing their Masters? Was John Brown wrong for killing Slave Owners? Were the French wrong for killing the Monarchy? Were the Bolsheviks wrong for killing the Tsar? Are Palestinians wrong for killing the IDF?
Violence is a tool that should be used sparingly and carefully, yes. It should be avoided, if possible. However, if non-violence is proven to not work, then that leaves violence, or threat of violence, as the remaining path.
The idea that using violence against oppressors makes you "no better than them" is useless moralism used to justify an extremely violent system that daily beats its subjects.
Was it a crime to liberate Russia from the brutal Tsars and pull Russia out of the highly unpopular and bloody World War I?
What on Earth are you talking about? Why are you comparing liberatory violence with voting in Hitler?
After they killed the czars, they turned on the people.
That's the part tankie won't teach you folks but a quick Wikipedia search should explain to you what they did to the peasants, esp in Ukraine and Kazakhstan
Yea, they helped the people by ending famines, doubling life expectancy, getting to 99% literacy rates, provided free college and healthcare, and democratized government.
Are you genuinely under the impression that Marxists somehow spent their entire lives avoiding western narratives around the USSR, read dozens of books on history and theory, and somehow have never once seen the western point of view? Are you specifically referring to events, or their entire history?
As an example, prior to the current Russo-Ukranian conflict escalating in 2022, in 2019 62% of Ukranians said they were worse off then, than under Communism. Ukranians enjoyed being a part of the USSR more than they do being a part of the current Ukranian State. Similarly, Central Asia (including Kazakhstan) is not without Soviet Nostalgia either.
This is, of course, after you said using violence against oppressors makes you no better than them, which automatically makes you anti-Palestine, pro-Confederacy, anti-Haitian Slave Revolt, anti-French Revolution, and against all violent liberatory movements, if we assume you to be morally consistent.
🤡
Make some fake survey to justify fake position, ignore 100 years of history and current situation.
Delusional haha
Which part is fake, and why? Your beloved wikipedia agrees with what I'm saying here too, I just thought you might like to see direct sources. Do you have a single source?
Bro.. Site your source properly.
Cherry picking survey to support your position while ignoring overwhelming majority voting to exit Russian clown state along with every other republic.
Saying this shit while Ukraine has to fight a war for its existance is beyond idiotic. Who do you think you covering with this?
Do you ever wonder why Warsaw pack states joined EU and NATO first chance they got?
Must be because life under Russian boot was that great lol
Didn't cherry pick at all, Socialism was better for Ukranians and every group in the former USSR. Additionally, it's quite the opposite to say that most people wanted out of the USSR, the vast majority wished to retain the USSR in a popular vote. The USSR was dissolved illegally against the will of the people.
Are you under the impression that the Russian Federation is somehow still Communist, or are you just racist against Russians? What's your point, here? Are you saying you hate the USSR because they were Russian, not because they were Communists, or was this just a fumbled point?
Shock Therapy destroyed these countries, 7 million people died due to the collapse of the USSR. The Warsaw Pact nations flocked to the more stable western nations as the same western nations plundered the remnants of the USSR.
Again, as we can see, life was better under Socialism, more economically stable, and more democratic, hence why people that actually lived in the USSR have a highly consistent favorable opinion.
Please, read modern history books written after the opening of the Soviet Archives, where historians were finally granted access to internal historical evidence. Right now your only argument is just that you think Russians themselves are bad, which is blatant racism.
Y'all keep spamming these copy paste bits in bad faith.
Peopleade their choice and y'all just can't cope with it.
NO MEANS NO
No amount of y'all crying will change that.
If people thought life was so good, why no political parties in any major form present to represent this "desire"
Imagine if americans were as excited to shoot politicians as they get about shooting kids in school
Yeah I can’t figure it out. All those gun rights. You’d think they’d do more with them
There is a reason why one happens and the other doesn't.
buissness is getting squezed . also the current minority...