Despite everything, if you're in the US, you should still vote
lemmy.blahaj.zone
When given a choice between a millitary industrial neoliberal with a rainbow voting base and a fascist who is one elon musk golf session away from banning HRT, the best option is certainly not to refuse to play out of protest
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If you keep voting for the lesser evil rather than destroying this fucked system, eventually your choices will be between a fascist and a fascist. Y'all would rather waste time delaying the inevitable, rather than working to disempower and destroy these exploitative and oppressive systems.
Hey now, let's be fair. It's not just ashes, it's also going to be blood. And between 2 and 3 of the 4 cats are literal Nazis.
Guys guys if we just vote for the genocidal cop it will fix our problems, I promise. It will be different this election, just trust me.
Y'all can have fun playing moral high ground playing the same old lines every election like a broken record. Waste your time playing politics and voting for the lesser evil. For me, if its a choice between two evils, I think I'd rather not pick.
I will not sacrifice trans people, genocide continues under both yet only Trump would ban HRT or make their lives even worse. It’s something that’s better than nothing. By design, Americans have two choices, take the one that keeps minorities alive. (They probably agree with your hopes, as a bonus)
A bit ago I interacted with an anarchist who refused to vote because he had everything he wanted now (right to gay marriage, specifically) but he didn’t even know that’s only accessible due to a supreme court ruling and not a law. It can disappear just as quick as abortion. Just token vote for the party that may manage to codify that into law or at least won’t ban it. People will die without marriage equality or HRT, they need to live their life before your fabled collapse occurs.
If you can’t manage empathy, you are a libertarian in the “fuck you, I got mine” worst way. No dreaming of the collapse, no advocating for radical change, just a libertarian. Be better, do both harm reduction now and foment the future collapse.
I do harm reduction in the streets. You do harm reduction by sucking politicians dicks. Don't act like the anti-trans shit Trump does doesnt affect me.
God’s most in denial libertarian 😞 refuses to check a box on some paper every 4 years because of anarchist cosplay mind gymnastics that’s come to the conclusion if you vote at all you’re whole heartedly endorsing candidates while simultaneously slowing the collapse into bloodshed where the fabled anarcho-society can rise from the ashes of every trans person and many more.
Your logic lacks empathy, you need to do introspection to make your beliefs consistently ethical. Claiming to help people on the ground while not helping people on the ground indirectly with basically no effort is incongruous - even if you believe the government should not exist, it does rn, and we live in a society where it can hurt or help the same people you claim to. Nudge the fabric of society that you interact with through fantastically minimal effort and never tell another anarcho-soul in your Matrix chat if they’re still doing a not voting circlejerk because goberment exist grr
Of course! And if you don't pick, no one at all gets hurt or affected by that choice in any way! It totally only affects you! It's not like you have a moral obligation to not actively make the lives of others worse, right? It's not like choosing to not vote is also a choice that requires moral justification! Refusing to act is totally different morally than acting in a way that harms others! I can't wait to feel so right when I watch the news of the military camps and the anti-trans lynch mobs! Sure, I mean I didn't take 5 fucking minutes out of one day every 4 years to mark an X on a sheet of paper that could have prevented that from happening to them, but it's not like I had any power to do anything about it, right? ... Right?
I am not doing nothing, I'm just not voting. And you are a privileged asshole to think I am not affected. I choose to make a difference outside of electoral politics. Thats your issue. You think the only way to make a difference and protect people is by voting.
You think it's impossible to make a difference by voting and also by doing other things. I think voting to keep things from getting worse is the bare fucking minimum. If you can't even take a few minutes out of one day to mark a sheet of paper to keep things from getting worse I don't believe for a second are you doing anything to make things better.
You are picking a fight with someone who does more than the bare minimum? Can you honestly say that you put this kind of energy to people who won't do anything but the bare minimum? People who vote but do nothing else to help others? No I'm probably not better than someone who votes and does other stuff to help people. But I am certainly better than the people who all they do is vote. So how about you put your "lesser of the two evils" perspective to work and go agitate people who aren't out there in their communities and helping people in need.
I didn't say anything about voting, I'm just trying to be realistic about who else is looking forward to the collapse of the current system. If you want to roll the dice on that then you should at least be honest about who else is sitting at the table.
I ain't waiting for society to collapse. I practice prefiguration, meaning I build the infrasture and systems needed now to both take power away from the capitalists and politicians. This shows people we do not need these systems of oppression and lays the foundation needed for systemic and social change. Most anarchists are not twiddling their thumbs waiting for shit to hit the fan, they are out providing mutual aid and trying to build this foundation. We are not opportunists.
Of course! And the way we do that is let the fascists win! It all makes sense now! We just have to let enough of our trans homies die and let Trump use the military to round up millions of people and put them in camps first! It's the blood sacrifice we need in order to usher in the (insert political system most Americans don't understand in the slightest and have negative views toward that will totally improve if we are instrumental in letting Hitler 2.0 win) revolution! It's just a good thing I am privileged enough to not have to be one of those rounded up in camps or lynched in the streets or die during the civil war / revolution! Why doesn't anyone else see it? We just have to deliberately let enough people die first in order for the politics-fairies to grant me the exact system I imagine!
/S
I'd love to see what your suggestion is for "working to disempower and destroy" the systems exactly while letting fascists take power. It's not like we could ever do both, right? We could never vote to keep things from actively getting worse and also advocate for a better world, right? It's not like the Dems would move right if they lost this time like they have done every single time before, right?
I'm saying this one more time, so all you libshit assholes understand. I am not unaffected by the election results. I work through direct action to help others. I work to build systems of cooperation and disempower state and capitalist systems at a grassroots level. You can do things without the state and I wont let democrats and the government hold me and the people I care about hostage. My rights and others rights will not be a carrot on a stick for politicians to dangle in front of my face. If any of you actually cared about stopping fascism and protecting people you would be on the ground feeding and defending the homeless, building radical unions, doing community defense, and more. You all forget that voting never stopped fascism before, and it won't now. You are no better than the conservatives and fascists as you both threaten and abuse those that don't want to follow your regime.
Oh yes, the guy who can't even take 5 minutes to vote is totally devoting his free time to making things better. Do you think any of the other shit you talked about will be easier under Trump than Harris? You are choosing to let things get worse for the people you claim to care about just so you can feel morally superior by not "participating". News flash, choosing to not vote is still a choice with consequences for the people you are virtue signalling about. Choosing not to pull the lever doesn't make you not morally responsible for the people who chose not to save.
Yeah youre right. The person who doesnt vote does use their free time to help those in need. Personally I feel like thats better than the people who do the opposite. People who all they do is vote and then moral grand stand as if they did anything impactful. Cause I run into a lot more of those than I do of people like me. Too many people who feel like voting is enough and they can just vote and forget. How about you go pick fights with them, rather than bitching about people who are doing work but just dont want to play the voting game?