What if I told you, there are PLENTY of soldiers in every branch ready and waiting to betray any oath for daddy trump. They went through the same classes you did and just nodded along to get through it. Now they're trained, and ready to fill the void when Trump fires or demotes anyone who refuses his orders.
And what if I told you that there's also plenty of soldiers that will uphold the constitution and will be ready to fight for it.
They better get ready for a fight because it's coming. they will have to decide if they will just resign in protest or if they will fight. How many will actually fight? Who knows. Nearly everyone I know personally in the military, has said many times "it's just a job"
I'm not in anymore but I was one of them, reported and told others I would turn my gun on them if they tried to start "beating hippies heads in" when we were getting ready to be sent to a city protest. The military is not all Republicans like the police as it attracts a huge swath of different Americans doing for different reasons.
There are for sure good soldiers. My own cousin is one of them that I know would put down anyone who tried to turn on his men. But we have to acknowledge that there are MANY bad soldiers who would be more than willing to turn on this nation, and there are also plenty that would rather be aloof and not stick their necks out for a fight
Yep there's 2 sides to this. Which is why I think civil war is inevitable. There will be 2 factions, Trump loyalists and American loyalists.
At some point Trump wants the military to be completely subservient to him. This is needed so he can abolish Congress and create a new office for himself as dictator. He knows if he just leaves office after 4 years the court cases will resume and he will end up in prison. He will do anything to stay out of prison.
We can only hope the generals won't be loyal to him and when Trump fires the generals that their respective armed forces remain loyal to their general during the Civil War and not to Trump.
This is exactly what China and Russia wanted all along, to destabilize the usa. With us out of the way China will expand in the Phillipines and Taiwan while Russia expands its European offensive. I expect India to take advantage as well.
I also think there will be a civil war. I think Trump is a Russian asset meant to cause it and do as much damage as possible to the US. And the same Russian propaganda that turned MAGA into a weapon has been affecting soldiers too.
He won't abolish congress, that would hurt rich people. He'll just continue to ensure it's useless for helping anyone.
The military is majority conservative especially enlisted. If officers try to keep things under control Der Fuhrer could just strip them of their commissions and give them to anyone he wants to. Especially if his people run congress.
I don't think you understand the command structure of the US Armed forces.
Congress and the president issue all officer commissions and warrants for warrant officers respectively. Who can stop them from revoking them if they so choose?
That is absolutely not how that works. Also while they're conservative, they are not fans of Trump. The active duty military voted blue in 2020.
And what did they vote for this time?
I'm not actually seeing a similar poll for 2024. They did do including veterans which is roughly 60/40. Regardless, if he treats the military the same way he did last time then any advantage among active duty troops will not last.
I hope you're right even though a ton of members of the groups of people he has disparaged voted for him. I wouldn't be surprised if the armed forces are among them.
Oh I don't bring hope. Sorry about that. My point is it's far easier for him to stand up a DOJ task force with drones and infantry veterans who self select to be in his personal unit. He'll give them badges and armored vehicles.
The military resisting is going to be a moot point because SCOTUS already ruled that police aren't troops, so these guys will be able to do all the things the Army can't while effectively being the Army.
That would require massive and obvious reorganizations of the military. It would also effectively hollow out the officer corps with so many of them refusing an illegal reorganization. (The organization at the high levels is set by law)
It's far more likely Trump will take volunteer veterans into the DOJ, give them a badge, and run it like a military unit with all of the equipment and none of the accountability. It's easier, faster, and legal.
I keep saying this again and again. Being set by law, does not fucking matter now. Being illegal, does not matter now. They will MAKE IT legal, or they will hand wave the illegality.
Sure, great, but the military isn't about to hand waive anything. They will send the MPs to arrest soldiers for desertion. They will process people out of the military for following illegal orders.
They aren't robots and they have decades of experience in slow walking stuff, malicious compliance, and straight up refusing illegal orders. There isn't just one officer to fire either. It would take them years to build a military willing to be used against the American people.
They can have a DOJ task force up and running in a month. They can be recruiting veterans in 2 months. They can use the surplus system to transfer armored vehicles to the DOJ in about 6 months if someone is dragging their heels. And the military is actually in the middle of getting shiny new armored vehicles so seeing M113 APCs showing up on the surplus list isn't even going to raise eyebrows.
I sincerely hope they smash their heads against the military for another 4 years. But by the end of his last term they figured out they could use a DOJ task force to beat up and abduct protestors. Just adding surplus military equipment and Trump cultists to that isn't going to be hard to figure out. Stop trying to put the military in a hole it's not going to easily fit into and start looking at what's actually likely.
You're absolutely correct.
Rank and file grunts may be gargling nazi balls, but the officer pool are often college educated and will not hand over America to a dictatorship. It'll take a decade just to fire all the officers who won't follow his illegal orders. Another decade to reform into a stazi.
The secret police will be local police forces organzed under a Fed Dept probably Homeland or ICE.
You've heard of Vietnam right? Why are you putting so much faith in the US military acting like they have any sort of mortality?
The military was almost completely reworked between Vietnam and Desert Storm. They were getting tired of having to deal with the paper work for fragging, accidental friendly fire, and junior officers getting the shit beat out of them. Also a lot of the reforms had to do with ethics and rules of engagement, Vietnam was a fucken PR nightmare and the military did not want to deal with that shit ever again.
That's his training. The military mentally conditions these men to respond to stuff like this in this way: absolute, unyielding, expected. He is not going to be able to conceive of a different way because his training was that thorough. That's probably a good thing. My dad was in the military also and when you ask him about military stuff, his personality goes into soldier mode like this too.
However I will say, having met modern young men who are soldiers - idk that they got the same training at all.
I'm not the other poster. But we already have examples of the military standing up to Trump during his previous term. We know he's going to have to wade into the leadership pool to find sympathetic leaders.
They don’t have to make it legal.
Trump will pardon anyone he feels like. They can also just fail to prosecute or let cases against perpetrators just die in legal limbo.
Uphold the constitution? Great- they'll pass an ammendment.
They don't have the numbers to pass an ammendment. They will just use the Supreme Court to "interpret" the constitution into oblivion.
They don't need numbers, They will just do it. Because what are you going to do about it.
What if I told you, there are PLENTY of soldiers in every branch ready and waiting to betray any oath for daddy trump. They went through the same classes you did and just nodded along to get through it. Now they're trained, and ready to fill the void when Trump fires or demotes anyone who refuses his orders.
And what if I told you that there's also plenty of soldiers that will uphold the constitution and will be ready to fight for it.
They better get ready for a fight because it's coming. they will have to decide if they will just resign in protest or if they will fight. How many will actually fight? Who knows. Nearly everyone I know personally in the military, has said many times "it's just a job"
I'm not in anymore but I was one of them, reported and told others I would turn my gun on them if they tried to start "beating hippies heads in" when we were getting ready to be sent to a city protest. The military is not all Republicans like the police as it attracts a huge swath of different Americans doing for different reasons.
There are for sure good soldiers. My own cousin is one of them that I know would put down anyone who tried to turn on his men. But we have to acknowledge that there are MANY bad soldiers who would be more than willing to turn on this nation, and there are also plenty that would rather be aloof and not stick their necks out for a fight
Yep there's 2 sides to this. Which is why I think civil war is inevitable. There will be 2 factions, Trump loyalists and American loyalists.
At some point Trump wants the military to be completely subservient to him. This is needed so he can abolish Congress and create a new office for himself as dictator. He knows if he just leaves office after 4 years the court cases will resume and he will end up in prison. He will do anything to stay out of prison.
We can only hope the generals won't be loyal to him and when Trump fires the generals that their respective armed forces remain loyal to their general during the Civil War and not to Trump.
This is exactly what China and Russia wanted all along, to destabilize the usa. With us out of the way China will expand in the Phillipines and Taiwan while Russia expands its European offensive. I expect India to take advantage as well.
I also think there will be a civil war. I think Trump is a Russian asset meant to cause it and do as much damage as possible to the US. And the same Russian propaganda that turned MAGA into a weapon has been affecting soldiers too.
He won't abolish congress, that would hurt rich people. He'll just continue to ensure it's useless for helping anyone.
The military is majority conservative especially enlisted. If officers try to keep things under control Der Fuhrer could just strip them of their commissions and give them to anyone he wants to. Especially if his people run congress.
I don't think you understand the command structure of the US Armed forces.
Congress and the president issue all officer commissions and warrants for warrant officers respectively. Who can stop them from revoking them if they so choose?
That is absolutely not how that works. Also while they're conservative, they are not fans of Trump. The active duty military voted blue in 2020.
And what did they vote for this time?
I'm not actually seeing a similar poll for 2024. They did do including veterans which is roughly 60/40. Regardless, if he treats the military the same way he did last time then any advantage among active duty troops will not last.
I hope you're right even though a ton of members of the groups of people he has disparaged voted for him. I wouldn't be surprised if the armed forces are among them.
Oh I don't bring hope. Sorry about that. My point is it's far easier for him to stand up a DOJ task force with drones and infantry veterans who self select to be in his personal unit. He'll give them badges and armored vehicles.
The military resisting is going to be a moot point because SCOTUS already ruled that police aren't troops, so these guys will be able to do all the things the Army can't while effectively being the Army.
That would require massive and obvious reorganizations of the military. It would also effectively hollow out the officer corps with so many of them refusing an illegal reorganization. (The organization at the high levels is set by law)
It's far more likely Trump will take volunteer veterans into the DOJ, give them a badge, and run it like a military unit with all of the equipment and none of the accountability. It's easier, faster, and legal.
I keep saying this again and again. Being set by law, does not fucking matter now. Being illegal, does not matter now. They will MAKE IT legal, or they will hand wave the illegality.
Sure, great, but the military isn't about to hand waive anything. They will send the MPs to arrest soldiers for desertion. They will process people out of the military for following illegal orders.
They aren't robots and they have decades of experience in slow walking stuff, malicious compliance, and straight up refusing illegal orders. There isn't just one officer to fire either. It would take them years to build a military willing to be used against the American people.
They can have a DOJ task force up and running in a month. They can be recruiting veterans in 2 months. They can use the surplus system to transfer armored vehicles to the DOJ in about 6 months if someone is dragging their heels. And the military is actually in the middle of getting shiny new armored vehicles so seeing M113 APCs showing up on the surplus list isn't even going to raise eyebrows.
I sincerely hope they smash their heads against the military for another 4 years. But by the end of his last term they figured out they could use a DOJ task force to beat up and abduct protestors. Just adding surplus military equipment and Trump cultists to that isn't going to be hard to figure out. Stop trying to put the military in a hole it's not going to easily fit into and start looking at what's actually likely.
You're absolutely correct.
Rank and file grunts may be gargling nazi balls, but the officer pool are often college educated and will not hand over America to a dictatorship. It'll take a decade just to fire all the officers who won't follow his illegal orders. Another decade to reform into a stazi.
The secret police will be local police forces organzed under a Fed Dept probably Homeland or ICE.
You've heard of Vietnam right? Why are you putting so much faith in the US military acting like they have any sort of mortality?
The military was almost completely reworked between Vietnam and Desert Storm. They were getting tired of having to deal with the paper work for fragging, accidental friendly fire, and junior officers getting the shit beat out of them. Also a lot of the reforms had to do with ethics and rules of engagement, Vietnam was a fucken PR nightmare and the military did not want to deal with that shit ever again.
That's his training. The military mentally conditions these men to respond to stuff like this in this way: absolute, unyielding, expected. He is not going to be able to conceive of a different way because his training was that thorough. That's probably a good thing. My dad was in the military also and when you ask him about military stuff, his personality goes into soldier mode like this too.
However I will say, having met modern young men who are soldiers - idk that they got the same training at all.
I'm not the other poster. But we already have examples of the military standing up to Trump during his previous term. We know he's going to have to wade into the leadership pool to find sympathetic leaders.
They don’t have to make it legal.
Trump will pardon anyone he feels like. They can also just fail to prosecute or let cases against perpetrators just die in legal limbo.
Uphold the constitution? Great- they'll pass an ammendment.
They don't have the numbers to pass an ammendment. They will just use the Supreme Court to "interpret" the constitution into oblivion.
They don't need numbers, They will just do it. Because what are you going to do about it.