Then don't defend the flaws of the Democratic party and call a spade a spade. We know Trump sucks. I voted and encouraged others to vote. The job of any party is to motivate turnout. Turnout did not diminish because some random person on Lemmy said they weren't going to vote or criticized somebody.
The Democratic party hurt their own turnout and appeal by defending the status quo and appealing to Republicans. That kills any sort of enthusiasm people have. They clearly did not win over any substantial number of Republicans and they suppressed their own turnout.
Many people voting do not have a deep interest in politics. I can complain about how they should care more, but they either don't have the time or they can't be bothered. Give them something to make it worth the effort. Trump motivates turnout because even though you and I know he's shit he says he's going to change things. For a lot of people voting works by assessing how I'm doing right now. Right now most people aren't feeling great. So when one party says, "things are bad and I'm going to change them," and the other party says, "actually things are great. Look how great the economy is recovering. Stop complaining about how your cost have living hasn't recovered," some people are going to ignore the bigotry and bullshit and others are going to give up.
I'm not asking for Socialist Santa Claus. I'm asking for the slightest bit of competency. I'm asking for assessing what the root causes of a loss are and how to fix it.
Im asking for the slightest bit of effort on their part.
But sure, keep making excuses for them and they'll take it. Im sure they'll wake up one day and realize it's all their fault after everyone has continually excused them.
Shaming people for not voting has never been an effective strategy for significantly increasing turnout. I feel like it's been tried and maybe people need some good policies in tandem with your shaming to motivate them.
I don't like that they don't vote. I think that they should vote. I want to think about how we can get them to vote.
Keep being dense though. I'm glad it makes you feel better.
Keep giving excuses and being dense. See how that works out for you. Great job.
How am I making excuses?
I would have liked Trump to lose. When assessing what went wrong we need to look at the causes. You can say, "these lazy dumb idiots didn't vote," but that isn't a fix. That's only identifying a problem. We now need to figure out how to get lazy dumb idiots to vote.
My frustration is that its the job of a political party to motivate lazy dumb idiots and the democrats haven't been doing a very good job.
You make excuses for them not voting and absolve them of ownership of the situation. They'll never feel like theyre at fault if you do that. And they should.
And I fundamentally disagree- the party is supposed to convince you to vote for them, not to vote in general. It's a civic duty.
So yes, so long as they never are made to feel they drove the car into the ditch, they won't. So my suggestion is to start making them acutely aware that they are at fault and when bad shit happens let them know that they brought it upon themselves but they also have the power to change that in the future.
For fucks sake read the words im about to write.
It sucks that those people didnt vote. I think that they should have voted. It's even okay to be mad at them for not voting, but that's not the important part. None of that fixes anything. I think its more important to look at why they didn't vote and how to get them to vote.
Wanting to make them hurt because we're hurting is not a strategy. The problem is that people did not vote for Kamala Harris. Trump's turnout increased in 2024. Do you think Republicans shamed their voters or do you think that they offered change? The solution is not to lash out at other voters. The solution is to identify people not voting as a problem, but to then look at the root causes of that problem. I can promise that the problem is not that you didn't vote shame people hard enough.
Looking for reasons why something happened does not excuse it, but it does help you understand why it happened.
The root cause is that people are let off the hook. "Oh both candidates were bad, no point in voting." Hell you hear that crap all the time "republican and republican lite." It's not even close to the truth and people saying it are just giving people excuses for being lazy and letting them off the hook.
I'm not trying to make them hurt. I think they will be by default and deserve to be reminded that doing nothing ensured it.
And if you would read what I wrote then you'd see that I am saying the Dems need to make changes sure but we also need to remind nonvoters they most definitely culpable for everything that happens in this administration. Why are you so averse to that? Afraid they might actually be forced to do some introspection and realize that they are part of the problem? Maybe they'll finally take ownership and actually go vote?
For real- take the L and move on.
"Dems need to make changes sure but we also need to remind nonvoters they most definitely culpable for everything that happens in this administration. Why are you so averse to that?" The vast majority of voters and non voters are not on Lemmy or in your circles. The protest 3rd party votes and non voters are a small fraction of the overall turnout suppression that happens with a bad campaign. My frustration is that I'm already seeing individuals like yourself and establishment democrats learning the wrong lessons. What you're saying is the same lesson the Democrats have learned in past elections and it's what will keep them losing. Rather than energizing support with a populist campaign and policies they only campaign as the status quo compared to the Republican threat and it is not working.
Obama won by a large margin in 2008 because people were energized by the promise of change. Rather than delivering on that promise or learning that that was effective messaging they thought they had gained party loyalty that they could exchange for corporate friendly policy.
You're right nonvoters, Trump voters, etc are culpable for this loss. My frustration is seeing so much focus on it. Shaming people did not did not work this election and it won't work in the next. The issue wasn't that you didn't shame.hard enough. Keep doing it if it makes you feel better, but you're yelling at a wall.
Id say the same to you. Agree to disagree. Im moving on.
Voter turnout in swing states, the only ones where the voter total really matter in our trash electoral system, actually stayed the same or increased. You can check and compare the reuslts in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. The large drop is due to turnout depression in blue strongholds where voters knew democrats would win. Trump won swinstates in spite of turnout. I want you to be more informed.
Then don't defend the flaws of the Democratic party and call a spade a spade. We know Trump sucks. I voted and encouraged others to vote. The job of any party is to motivate turnout. Turnout did not diminish because some random person on Lemmy said they weren't going to vote or criticized somebody.
The Democratic party hurt their own turnout and appeal by defending the status quo and appealing to Republicans. That kills any sort of enthusiasm people have. They clearly did not win over any substantial number of Republicans and they suppressed their own turnout.
Many people voting do not have a deep interest in politics. I can complain about how they should care more, but they either don't have the time or they can't be bothered. Give them something to make it worth the effort. Trump motivates turnout because even though you and I know he's shit he says he's going to change things. For a lot of people voting works by assessing how I'm doing right now. Right now most people aren't feeling great. So when one party says, "things are bad and I'm going to change them," and the other party says, "actually things are great. Look how great the economy is recovering. Stop complaining about how your cost have living hasn't recovered," some people are going to ignore the bigotry and bullshit and others are going to give up.
I'm not asking for Socialist Santa Claus. I'm asking for the slightest bit of competency. I'm asking for assessing what the root causes of a loss are and how to fix it.
Im asking for the slightest bit of effort on their part.
But sure, keep making excuses for them and they'll take it. Im sure they'll wake up one day and realize it's all their fault after everyone has continually excused them.
Shaming people for not voting has never been an effective strategy for significantly increasing turnout. I feel like it's been tried and maybe people need some good policies in tandem with your shaming to motivate them.
I don't like that they don't vote. I think that they should vote. I want to think about how we can get them to vote.
Keep being dense though. I'm glad it makes you feel better.
Keep giving excuses and being dense. See how that works out for you. Great job.
How am I making excuses?
I would have liked Trump to lose. When assessing what went wrong we need to look at the causes. You can say, "these lazy dumb idiots didn't vote," but that isn't a fix. That's only identifying a problem. We now need to figure out how to get lazy dumb idiots to vote.
My frustration is that its the job of a political party to motivate lazy dumb idiots and the democrats haven't been doing a very good job.
You make excuses for them not voting and absolve them of ownership of the situation. They'll never feel like theyre at fault if you do that. And they should.
And I fundamentally disagree- the party is supposed to convince you to vote for them, not to vote in general. It's a civic duty.
So yes, so long as they never are made to feel they drove the car into the ditch, they won't. So my suggestion is to start making them acutely aware that they are at fault and when bad shit happens let them know that they brought it upon themselves but they also have the power to change that in the future.
For fucks sake read the words im about to write.
It sucks that those people didnt vote. I think that they should have voted. It's even okay to be mad at them for not voting, but that's not the important part. None of that fixes anything. I think its more important to look at why they didn't vote and how to get them to vote.
Wanting to make them hurt because we're hurting is not a strategy. The problem is that people did not vote for Kamala Harris. Trump's turnout increased in 2024. Do you think Republicans shamed their voters or do you think that they offered change? The solution is not to lash out at other voters. The solution is to identify people not voting as a problem, but to then look at the root causes of that problem. I can promise that the problem is not that you didn't vote shame people hard enough.
Looking for reasons why something happened does not excuse it, but it does help you understand why it happened.
The root cause is that people are let off the hook. "Oh both candidates were bad, no point in voting." Hell you hear that crap all the time "republican and republican lite." It's not even close to the truth and people saying it are just giving people excuses for being lazy and letting them off the hook.
I'm not trying to make them hurt. I think they will be by default and deserve to be reminded that doing nothing ensured it.
And if you would read what I wrote then you'd see that I am saying the Dems need to make changes sure but we also need to remind nonvoters they most definitely culpable for everything that happens in this administration. Why are you so averse to that? Afraid they might actually be forced to do some introspection and realize that they are part of the problem? Maybe they'll finally take ownership and actually go vote?
For real- take the L and move on.
"Dems need to make changes sure but we also need to remind nonvoters they most definitely culpable for everything that happens in this administration. Why are you so averse to that?" The vast majority of voters and non voters are not on Lemmy or in your circles. The protest 3rd party votes and non voters are a small fraction of the overall turnout suppression that happens with a bad campaign. My frustration is that I'm already seeing individuals like yourself and establishment democrats learning the wrong lessons. What you're saying is the same lesson the Democrats have learned in past elections and it's what will keep them losing. Rather than energizing support with a populist campaign and policies they only campaign as the status quo compared to the Republican threat and it is not working.
Obama won by a large margin in 2008 because people were energized by the promise of change. Rather than delivering on that promise or learning that that was effective messaging they thought they had gained party loyalty that they could exchange for corporate friendly policy.
You're right nonvoters, Trump voters, etc are culpable for this loss. My frustration is seeing so much focus on it. Shaming people did not did not work this election and it won't work in the next. The issue wasn't that you didn't shame.hard enough. Keep doing it if it makes you feel better, but you're yelling at a wall.
Id say the same to you. Agree to disagree. Im moving on.
Voter turnout in swing states, the only ones where the voter total really matter in our trash electoral system, actually stayed the same or increased. You can check and compare the reuslts in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. The large drop is due to turnout depression in blue strongholds where voters knew democrats would win. Trump won swinstates in spite of turnout. I want you to be more informed.