Climate change is real. China feels like the only country treating it like its real. I see stories about a country investing heavily in renewable energy, in EVs, in energy storage, and i dont understand why theyre not getting unanimous applause. Other countries are mad because they're doing better than them and want to drag them down to our gas SUV dependent level. Other countries should feel nothing but shame for not treating climate change like its real.
Climate change is real. China feels like the only country treating it like its real. I see stories about a country investing heavily in renewable energy, in EVs, in energy storage, and i dont understand why theyre not getting unanimous applause.
I think you may be misattributing China's motives. Yes, China is heavily investing in EVs, batteries, and non-carbon energy generation (solar, wind, hydro). However they're not doing it because of their deep desire to be green or concern over climate change. They're doing it because China's geography is energy poor in a very energy hungry nation. China has just a tiny fraction of fossil fuel sources located in their national borders. That's a really bad position when your nation is dependent on other nations for the energy you need to grow your food and run your economy. This is why they're maxed out on:
Other countries are mad because they’re doing better than them and want to drag them down to our gas SUV dependent level.
Except they're not doing better in reducing carbon emissions. Not only are they the largest global producer of CO2, they keep dramatically increasing carbon emissions year over year while the rest of the industrialized nations are plateauing or reducing (beside India).
Other countries should feel nothing but shame for not treating climate change like its real.
If we're looking at just the numbers (which, I admit, is an incomplete conversation), China is the one that is not treating climate change as real.
Depends on which numbers you’re looking at.
Your numbers don’t include the massive scale out of renewable energy, transit, and EVs that is outpacing the rest of the world combined. That’s crazy. Your numbers don’t include like 95% of EV buses: crazy. And your numbers don’t include the millions of Chinese still being uplifted to the developed world suddenly needing energy.
Most of all, your numbers don’t include progress toward decarbonization targets. Every country could define their own, but China is ahead of what they promised and most of the rest of us are behind
Depends on which numbers you’re looking at.
I absolutely agree.
Your numbers don’t include the massive scale out of renewable energy, transit, and EVs that is outpacing the rest of the world combined. That’s crazy. Your numbers don’t include like 95% of EV buses: crazy.
The amount of carbon China is releasing today doesn't care about any of that. You're looking at the gross, but what matters is the net which reaches the air. The net is hugely bad compared to other countries considering we have only one planet.
And your numbers don’t include the millions of Chinese still being uplifted to the developed world suddenly needing energy.
The atmosphere doesn't care about uplifting people. The climate will change negatively to human (plant and animal) life with the continue, or worse, increase of carbon emissions.
Most of all, your numbers don’t include progress toward decarbonization targets. Every country could define their own, but China is ahead of what they promised and most of the rest of us are behind
The atmosphere doesn't care about promises. It cares about reductions of release of carbon. If China is continuing to release more carbon while promising to release less at some point in the future, that doesn't help. Worse, China is isn't just releasing more carbon, its rate of release is also increasing drastically year over year. So its getting worse, not better, every year in a greater proportion to the prior year.
China can get accolades on decarbonizaion, when it actually de-carbonizes. So far that isn't happening.
The atmosphere doesn’t care about uplifting people
For sure, but it may be species-ist, but the whole point of caring for the environment is to give people a better future …. Compared to giving people a better future
China can get accolades on decarbonizaion, when it actually de-carbonizes
Progress is good, even if we don’t yet meet necessary goals. The point is they’re ahead of what they committed to. That’s a good thing. We’re not. That’s not good
but the whole point of caring for the environment is to give people a better future …. Compared to giving people a better future
Those people will NOT HAVE a better future with climate change.
Progress is good,
There is no progress. China's carbon emissions are greater year after year. There IS NO reduction. That isn't progress. That is regression.
even if we don’t yet meet necessary goals. The point is they’re ahead of what they committed to. That’s a good thing. We’re not. That’s not good
Look at the graph. The rest of the world is REDUCING carbon emissions. China (and India) are increasing.
They're ahead of what they committed to but they keep increasing carbon emissions? How are you possible able to see that as a positive thing?
Maybe, but these graphs only go up to 2021 while the article is current data. It matters in this case. Why is there 300 years of data charted when only the last 100 matter at all, and recent changes will be invisible?
Maybe, but these graphs only go up to 2021 while the article is current data. It matters in this case.
Cool! Feel free to present your own more recent carbon emission data. Please cite your source too.
Why is there 300 years of data charted when only the last 100 matter at all, and recent changes will be invisible?
Err...because the last 300 years represent they years following the Industrial Revolution and the only carbon humanity was emitting prior to that was camp and cooking fires and perhaps the a village blacksmith's forge?
Here’s a bunch more recent climate accolades China deserves, regardless of other failings
Here’s one from April with a very relevant chart showing US progress to date, including projections, showcasing good climate change progress we’ve made in recent years while also making it clear we’re nowhere near our commitment
Because the heavy positives come with some heavy negatives. China is an authoritarian nation that is making huge leaps and bounds here by using unilateral and undemocratic command to shift their nation state. They have near zero labor safety practices and are 100% happy to strip mine theirs or a foreign nation to get the resources to produce these important and valuable goods.
The heavy, direct influence of a billion+ person goverment dumping untold resources into producing EVs/Solar/etc at dirt cheap rates, then selling them, means that no other country can create it's own independent industry in these very important products. That leaves climate change, and the worlds fate, in the hands of said authoritarian government, a, goverment that is still glad to spin up untold coal plants/oil plants/etc. That's partly why tariffs have been springing up, although that's also just flat out economic protectionism too.
Basically, China is brutally efficient here because they are brutal. Countires that are not cant compete or applaud this because its based on destruction of people, and democracies aren't nominally a fan of that.
The other point here, past the brutality aspect, is that even if China was a shining example of democracy, you still don't want one nation to be the only one that can produce these key climate change goods. Their oncoming recession is likely going to cause lots of issues with their progress here, so other countries spinning up these industries, even with teething pains, is a positive.
The heavy, direct influence of a billion+ person goverment dumping untold resources into producing EVs/Solar/etc at dirt cheap rates, then selling them, means that no other country can create it’s own independent industry in these very important products.
Why cant the US dump more resources to compete? Why is the answer to one country investing heavily in climate change fighting technologies not to invest heavily in climate change fighting technologies yourself?
its harder to move money and make decisions in democracies, but it does happen.
Bidens IRA was 1.2 trillion dollars invested in largely climate change and modern infastructure, although with tons of other projects as well. Its a huge commitment. Is it enough?
Maybe not, but at least Democrats aren't trying to do zero or worse lie their peers.
Problem is, its not largely climate change spending. Everyone just sees the headline "biggest climate bill in history" and thats good enough for them. Well, wheres the cheaper EV's? Wheres the solar panels, the wind farms, why is oil production still increasing? Everyone got scammed. Its a puny climate bill that even has anti climate components like more land leasing for oil and gas extraction. It got poisoned with lobbyists and capitalism, its tax cuts for businesses in hopes theyll do good.
No one got scammed. Infastructure is hard, as the article this post is about explains. Shit takes time to get rolling. You don't just get money approved and order a solar panel factory off eBay or alibaba.
You have to scout sites, get permits, architects, builders, order parts, hire a staff, etc on and on and on.
These chinese companies already had everything streamlined and ready to go, so they are getting a leg up in the American market. Thats good in the sense that at least the factories are over here. The American brands will catch up, or at least have the same chance to catch up. That the most you can do in a market driven democracy. The subsides are out there now thanks to Bidens IRA.
Youre not telling me anything thats unique to the US. China has shown it doesnt take that long. Its not a matter of time for the US, the money in that bill just did not get put to good use
While China may have more people, certainly the Western countries have much more wealth we could choose to use toward decarbonization
China doesn't care about the climate change. China is all about face culture and money.
Won't go into details because there are already some good detailed information posted here.
Climate change is real. China feels like the only country treating it like its real. I see stories about a country investing heavily in renewable energy, in EVs, in energy storage, and i dont understand why theyre not getting unanimous applause. Other countries are mad because they're doing better than them and want to drag them down to our gas SUV dependent level. Other countries should feel nothing but shame for not treating climate change like its real.
I think you may be misattributing China's motives. Yes, China is heavily investing in EVs, batteries, and non-carbon energy generation (solar, wind, hydro). However they're not doing it because of their deep desire to be green or concern over climate change. They're doing it because China's geography is energy poor in a very energy hungry nation. China has just a tiny fraction of fossil fuel sources located in their national borders. That's a really bad position when your nation is dependent on other nations for the energy you need to grow your food and run your economy. This is why they're maxed out on:
In fact while the rest of the world is retiring coal for power generation, China is responsible for building 95% of the world's new coal power plants.
Except they're not doing better in reducing carbon emissions. Not only are they the largest global producer of CO2, they keep dramatically increasing carbon emissions year over year while the rest of the industrialized nations are plateauing or reducing (beside India).
If we're looking at just the numbers (which, I admit, is an incomplete conversation), China is the one that is not treating climate change as real.
Depends on which numbers you’re looking at.
Your numbers don’t include the massive scale out of renewable energy, transit, and EVs that is outpacing the rest of the world combined. That’s crazy. Your numbers don’t include like 95% of EV buses: crazy. And your numbers don’t include the millions of Chinese still being uplifted to the developed world suddenly needing energy.
Most of all, your numbers don’t include progress toward decarbonization targets. Every country could define their own, but China is ahead of what they promised and most of the rest of us are behind
I absolutely agree.
The amount of carbon China is releasing today doesn't care about any of that. You're looking at the gross, but what matters is the net which reaches the air. The net is hugely bad compared to other countries considering we have only one planet.
The atmosphere doesn't care about uplifting people. The climate will change negatively to human (plant and animal) life with the continue, or worse, increase of carbon emissions.
The atmosphere doesn't care about promises. It cares about reductions of release of carbon. If China is continuing to release more carbon while promising to release less at some point in the future, that doesn't help. Worse, China is isn't just releasing more carbon, its rate of release is also increasing drastically year over year. So its getting worse, not better, every year in a greater proportion to the prior year.
China can get accolades on decarbonizaion, when it actually de-carbonizes. So far that isn't happening.
For sure, but it may be species-ist, but the whole point of caring for the environment is to give people a better future …. Compared to giving people a better future
Progress is good, even if we don’t yet meet necessary goals. The point is they’re ahead of what they committed to. That’s a good thing. We’re not. That’s not good
Those people will NOT HAVE a better future with climate change.
There is no progress. China's carbon emissions are greater year after year. There IS NO reduction. That isn't progress. That is regression.
Look at the graph. The rest of the world is REDUCING carbon emissions. China (and India) are increasing.
They're ahead of what they committed to but they keep increasing carbon emissions? How are you possible able to see that as a positive thing?
Maybe, but these graphs only go up to 2021 while the article is current data. It matters in this case. Why is there 300 years of data charted when only the last 100 matter at all, and recent changes will be invisible?
Cool! Feel free to present your own more recent carbon emission data. Please cite your source too.
Err...because the last 300 years represent they years following the Industrial Revolution and the only carbon humanity was emitting prior to that was camp and cooking fires and perhaps the a village blacksmith's forge?
Here’s a bunch more recent climate accolades China deserves, regardless of other failings
Here’s one from April with a very relevant chart showing US progress to date, including projections, showcasing good climate change progress we’ve made in recent years while also making it clear we’re nowhere near our commitment
And here’s the exciting one discussing whether Chinas emissions have already peaked years early, or may be about to
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/18/climate/china-greenhouse-gas-emissions-plateau.html
And of course the challenge that we’re already entering the risky area of climate change that we tried to avoid
Because the heavy positives come with some heavy negatives. China is an authoritarian nation that is making huge leaps and bounds here by using unilateral and undemocratic command to shift their nation state. They have near zero labor safety practices and are 100% happy to strip mine theirs or a foreign nation to get the resources to produce these important and valuable goods.
The heavy, direct influence of a billion+ person goverment dumping untold resources into producing EVs/Solar/etc at dirt cheap rates, then selling them, means that no other country can create it's own independent industry in these very important products. That leaves climate change, and the worlds fate, in the hands of said authoritarian government, a, goverment that is still glad to spin up untold coal plants/oil plants/etc. That's partly why tariffs have been springing up, although that's also just flat out economic protectionism too.
Basically, China is brutally efficient here because they are brutal. Countires that are not cant compete or applaud this because its based on destruction of people, and democracies aren't nominally a fan of that.
The other point here, past the brutality aspect, is that even if China was a shining example of democracy, you still don't want one nation to be the only one that can produce these key climate change goods. Their oncoming recession is likely going to cause lots of issues with their progress here, so other countries spinning up these industries, even with teething pains, is a positive.
Why cant the US dump more resources to compete? Why is the answer to one country investing heavily in climate change fighting technologies not to invest heavily in climate change fighting technologies yourself?
its harder to move money and make decisions in democracies, but it does happen.
Bidens IRA was 1.2 trillion dollars invested in largely climate change and modern infastructure, although with tons of other projects as well. Its a huge commitment. Is it enough?
Maybe not, but at least Democrats aren't trying to do zero or worse lie their peers.
Problem is, its not largely climate change spending. Everyone just sees the headline "biggest climate bill in history" and thats good enough for them. Well, wheres the cheaper EV's? Wheres the solar panels, the wind farms, why is oil production still increasing? Everyone got scammed. Its a puny climate bill that even has anti climate components like more land leasing for oil and gas extraction. It got poisoned with lobbyists and capitalism, its tax cuts for businesses in hopes theyll do good.
No one got scammed. Infastructure is hard, as the article this post is about explains. Shit takes time to get rolling. You don't just get money approved and order a solar panel factory off eBay or alibaba.
You have to scout sites, get permits, architects, builders, order parts, hire a staff, etc on and on and on.
These chinese companies already had everything streamlined and ready to go, so they are getting a leg up in the American market. Thats good in the sense that at least the factories are over here. The American brands will catch up, or at least have the same chance to catch up. That the most you can do in a market driven democracy. The subsides are out there now thanks to Bidens IRA.
Youre not telling me anything thats unique to the US. China has shown it doesnt take that long. Its not a matter of time for the US, the money in that bill just did not get put to good use
While China may have more people, certainly the Western countries have much more wealth we could choose to use toward decarbonization
China doesn't care about the climate change. China is all about face culture and money.
Won't go into details because there are already some good detailed information posted here.