bsergay

@bsergay@discuss.online
5 Post – 127 Comments
Joined 2 months ago

First of all, thank you for this! This effort is very much appreciated and will definitely make it easier to parse through Linux; especially for beginners.

Having said that, some personal nitpicks of mine:

  • I absolutely love Fedora. But if it's named first on your list of beginner distros (presumably due to alphabetical ordering), then it better be easy as hell and work as expected OOTB. Unfortunately, that ain't the case. Hence, at least mentioning the Howto page of RPM Fusion would have been sensible to combat issues users might experience otherwise.
  • I'm fine with the inclusion of openSUSE Aeon, but openSUSE Kalpa is literally in Alpha. Therefore, it's too early to be recommended.
  • I'm personally not very bothered with Fedora Workstation on the list of distros geared towards beginners, while Debian is found on the list of power-user distros that beginners should avoid instead. (I'm a die hard Fedora fanboy anyways.) However, I am curious to your reasoning/justification.
  • Alpine Linux was originally envisioned as an embedded-first distribution. Therefore, most of its design choices revolve around that; small, secure, simple et cetera. The way that you describe/depict Alpine Linux, is more in line with how I would for (what I'd refer to as) demonstrative distros like Artix and Devuan.
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Nix, the package manager, is distro-agnostic. Add Home Manager on top of it and you're good to go; both packages and dotfiles are dealt with.

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Unsurprisingly, usage numbers for distros are hard to get due to lack of telemetry and what not.

However, some measurements do exist; like data from ProtonDB. These are used by Boiling Steam for their excellent reports in which some representation regarding usage across distros can be found. Their most recent report can be found here.

Note, however, that the following, as has been excellently touched upon by Boiling Steam, applies:

COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS

Since we hear some of the following comments EVERY SINGLE TIME, let’s address them here and now:

  • “Duh, it’s not representative of Linux usage in general!”: And nowhere does it claim to be. As often as possible we make it clear this is Linux usage in a gaming context. The usage of Debian and Ubuntu on servers is safe for now, no need to panic.
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May as well contribute my own 😜.

I'm an absolute sucker for exquisitely hardened distros. Hence, distros like Qubes OS and Kicksecure have rightfully caught my interest. However, the former's hardware requirements are too harsh on the devices I currently own. While the latter relies on backports for security updates; which I'm not a fan of. Thankfully, there is also secureblue.

Contrary to the others, secureblue is built on top of an 'immutable' and/or atomic base distro; namely Fedora Atomic. By which:

  • It's protected against certain attacks.
  • Enables it to benefit from more recent advancements and developments that benefit security without foregoing robustness.

If security is your top priority, Qubes OS is the gold standard. However, secureblue is a decent (albeit inferior) alternative if you prefer current and/or 'immutable'/atomic distros.

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I daily drive secureblue; or, to be more precise, its bluefin-main-userns-hardened image.

"Why?", you ask. Because security is my number one priority.

I dismiss other often mentioned hardened systems for the following reasons:

  • Qubes OS; my laptop doesn't satisfy its hardware requirements. Otherwise, this would have been my daily driver.
  • Kicksecure; primary reason would be how it's dependent on backports for security updates.
  • Tails; while excellent for protection against forensics, its security model is far from impressive otherwise. It's not really meant as a daily driver for general use anyways.
  • Spectrum OS; heavily inspired by Qubes OS and NixOS, which is a big W. Unfortunately, it's not ready yet.
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/etc can’t be edited on immutable distros

False on at least Fedora Atomic^[1]^, NixOS^[2]^ and openSUSE Aeon^[3]^..

Which 'immutable' distros are you referring to?


  1. On Fedora Atomic, changing /etc is literally identical to how it goes any other distro; or at least 1-to-1 as on traditional Fedora. The bonus is that a pristine copy of the original /etc is kept inside a sub-directory of /usr. Furthermore, all changes compared to the pristine copy are kept track of.
  2. On NixOS, changes have to be applied through configuration.nix. Though, regardless, it's effectively possible to edit and populate /etc like it is on other distros.
  3. It's explicitly mentioned that /etc does not belong to the immutable base.
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The pursuit of Freedom led me to Linux.

How do the 'offspring' of Mandrake/Mandriva compare to one another? IIRC, there's ALT, Mageia, OpenMandriva, PCLinuxOS and ROSA.

I've also come to the understanding that what set Mandrake apart from its peers was its polish and user-friendliness. Which, harbored a great community back in the days. Currently, however, this role is fulfilled by distros like Linux Mint. Furthermore, most distros are relatively straightforward anyways. So, my other questions would be:

  • Could the argument be made that Linux Mint is the actual spiritual successor to Mandrake?
  • Are the Mandrake-offspring's most compelling raison d'être that they're Mandrake's offspring?
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It just had its first Stable release (as Vanilla OS 2). Therefore, consider to wait it out a bit until it has been well-tested at large. Until then, please feel free to choose something else that is to your liking. Like, what is it that attracted you to this one in the first place?

I would normally 100% agree with you. But if it's an underrated distro, then I tend to be more lean on this. However, I agree that OP should have done a better job at 'advertising' openSUSE. For example; not mentioning YaST is just criminal.

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On your phone, do you search the software you want to install through your browser? After which, do you download the install script and try to run it?

No, of course not. Instead, you pay a visit to the accompanied software center. Searching, installing and upgrading all occur through that.

Similarly, on Linux, your chosen distro comes with a (or perhaps multiple) package manager(s) and a software center. Those should first and foremost be consulted. And for 99% of the cases; this is the intended, supposed and supported way of installing said software.

This should suffice for the sake of brevity. If you've still got questions, please feel free to ask them.

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Thank you for your honesty! I only intend for the truth to prevail and/or to reach mutual understanding. So please don't feel attacked. If somehow I came off as such, my apologies; that has never been my intent.

Bazzite, ChimeraOS and LibreELEC come to mind as distros fit for HTPC/console experiences.

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Not the person you asked, but they might have referred to the fact that (technically) Qubes OS is not a Linux distro because it's based on Xen instead. Though, even then, we might refer to it as a Xen distro (if anything).

Does the problem persist after a reboot?

Why PCLinuxOS?

I'm genuinely curious.

What's preventing you to install that single package through rpm-ostree?

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Laptop

I'm personally a fan of NovaCustom; not as upgradable as Framework, however 7 years of parts are definitely nice to have. They also offer video tutorials on how to replace parts. Good stuff.

But, like any vendor targeting Linux, its devices can be more expensive than what you'd expect from Asus, Lenovo etc.

Perhaps the most important questions that need answering are the following:

  • How much computation power is required? I.e. do 10th generation Intel chips suffice or not?
  • Are you okay with buying devices second hand?
  • How much explicit Linux support do you require from the vendor?
  • Do you live in Europe or in USA (or close enough) to buy from Linux-first vendors and not be deprived from sending and receiving the devices (for reparations and what not) due to associated costs and time?

Distro

As for distro, it all comes down to personal taste.

  • Linux Mint Cinnamon Edition if you require a popular, reliable and beginner-friendly base.
  • If you don't like how Cinnamon (the Desktop Environment) looks and/or feels, perhaps consider Pop!_OS, Tuxedo OS or Zorin OS instead.
  • However, if you prefer minimalism, then the likes of Debian and openSUSE Leap have to be mentioned.

All of the previously mentioned distros are known to ship older versions of software. This is excellent if you require stability above all, but what if you want a distro built on more up to date software? Well, consider the following then:

  • Fedora; software found here is at max six months old. Relatively minimal. However, it may require you to fiddle with codecs and what not on first boot. Thankfully, there's a lot of documentation out there to help you with this. Just ensure that the documentation is written relatively recently.
  • If you like what you see from Fedora, but would rather prefer a distro that's properly setup right from the get-go; then perhaps consider one of uBlue's images instead. These are known to provide the most stability out of the (relatively) up to date distros. Please ensure to thoroughly read through its documentation, though. The uBlue images are excellent, but their inner workings can be different from other distros. Hence, you should rely on its own documentation first. And only after you've determined that it's not found within should you consider consulting other sources.

Perhaps, you might prefer software updates as soon as they're available. Hence, Fedora (and derivatives) didn't quite cut it. Then, you should consider so-called rolling release distros. However, take note; every update comes with the risk of potentially breakage; i.e. something will misbehave that didn't before. The chance of this is relatively small; probs in the order of 1%. This chance persists; regardless of the chosen distro. Hence, with distros that update more often, it's more likely that some breakage will occur at some point.

With that out of the way, we should mention noteworthy rolling release distros:

  • openSUSE Tumbleweed is for those that absolutely require a rolling release, but desire as much stability as possible. Both openSUSE's testing as well as built-in Btrfs + Snapper work hard to ensure a smooth ride.
  • EndeavourOS or Garuda Linux are the entries from the lineage of the (in)famous Arch (btw). EndeavourOS is primarily known for its easy installation towards a minimal Arch system. Garuda Linux, on the other hand, is more opinionated and therefore comes with all the bells and whistles you'd expect from a distro oriented towards gamers. Still, it comes with Btrfs + Snapper built-in. Which is exactly why it's mentioned here. Note that you can setup Btrfs + Snapper yourself on EndeavourOS.

I’ll be back the moment Wayland works better.

You mentioned in a comment that you used Arch, Debian and EndeavourOS. Though, historically, Wayland has been adopted first on Fedora. Therefore, I wonder if underutilizing Fedora (and/or derivatives like Bazzite/Nobara) might have been the main culprit in this case.

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Informative post. Thank you!

NixOS not the major inspiration for immutables

Do you mean strictly mean 'immutable' distros with this?

consumer OSes like Android and ChromeOS are.

So, if I understood you correct, you pose that Android and ChromeOS are the major inspiration for 'immutable distros'. Which, to be fair, could be true. Uhmm..., a quick search didn't result on any conclusive evidence of this. If you will, could you perhaps help me find with sources that back up this claim?

But yes, NixOS has some influence even it don’t get the idea of immutable distros well.

Sorry, I don't understand this sentence. Could you explain what you meant here?

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Distrobox for accessing any package from any other repo; including those belonging to other distros.

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The existence of both is justified for their unique merits. However, I'd argue that the 'immutable'/atomic model makes more sense for a system that's dedicated towards gaming.

For a general daily driver, it all comes down to your specific needs. If Bazzite satisfies those, I'd argue it's the safer pick. However, if (for some reason) Bazzite falls short^[1]^, then go for Nobara instead.

There's a lot more to it than this, but I kept it short for the sake of brevity.


  1. Honestly, there's only very little that Bazzite actually can't do. Though its unique workflow might require some adjusting. Regardless, if you go for Bazzite, ensure to take a proper look at its documentation.
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Thanks for reading through it and giving your thoughts!

Could you elaborate on the mistakes/oversights found in the "Stable vs bleeding edge" section?

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Use Btrfs only, if you know what you are doing, if you understand it and actually need the extra functionality.

And, may I add, if your chosen distro defaults to it.

Thank you for the clarifications!

Regarding what you mentioned on Debian; ultimately, you're a lot more experienced than I am with it. But, IIUC, Debian 12 should have done a great job at easing (new) users into its ecosystem. Not sure if it's sufficient though.

I think I agree with the other commenter that you should just take a break.

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like not being able to put icons on the desktop with Steam due to it being Flatpak and Valve not having enabled that specific option)

Interesting. Bazzite has (for some time now) been shipping the native Steam package; so not the Flatpak one.

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IIRC, it was related to Fedora Atomic. Out of the box, Fedora Atomic offers functionality that's very close to what you'd expect from Btrfs snapshots. It doesn't use Snapper, but instead relies on (rpm-)ostree; at least, that's my understanding of it. So, in order to make Fedora Atomic more palatable and attractive, this feature was not directly built into Fedora. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if 'politics' play a role in this; Snapper is kinda like openSUSE's project. While Fedora Atomic's implementation is Fedora's take. Unfortunately, it happens to be (by design) not available on traditional Fedora.

Interesting take.

I don’t believe in immutable distros.

This seems more philosophical than on technicalities. If this is correct, would you mind elaborating on the philosophical side?

They are not well developed now

Even if this were the case, shouldn't the constant development and continuous improvement result in something that's (eventually) well-developed? The only way I could see this holding some truth is if by design the 'immutable' model (whatever that is) happens to be broken or something like that. Like, how some file systems are simply better than Btrfs (or any CoW filesystem for that matter) for specific tasks; i.e. ensure to use the right tool for the right task. So, do you pose that 'immutable distros' are by design not well-suited? If so, why?

so it’s a bubble that should pop soon after people realize they are not ready yet

So you (actually) acknowledge and imply that it will become ready at some point. Or not? Furthermore, like how do you reconcile this with Fedora's ambitions for Fedora Atomic? Or how NixOS is going strong (perhaps stronger than ever) while it's been in the making since before Ubuntu?

and have a lot of disadvantages.

And advantages*. Or do you ignore those?

Also they are unsuitable for old PCs

This is false. What makes you think that?

and Nix seems relatively good for them

What's "them" in this sentence? The "old PCs" you had just mentioned? Or something else? Furthermore, if it is the "old PCs", doesn't this directly contradict with "they are unsuitable for old PCs"?

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Sorry to be that guy, but you should just sit down and go over Qubes OS' documentation. Some specific entries that might prove useful:

If you ask me, read a lot more beyond these. But if you really got no time, then at least suffice with the aforementioned.

Wish ya good luck!

Hehe, consider to keep us updated 😜.

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Perhaps that makes him the perfect candidate 😂.

Why do you dislike Fedora?

I'm genuinely curious.

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Could you describe what has transpired before? Have you actually installed Debian? Are you still trying to boot into the install medium?

Perhaps sharing device specs might be helpful.

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OpenSUSE isn’t enterprise friendly for a many reasons.

Isn't SLE targeted towards enterprise anyways?

It lacks the features of rhel like systems and the simplicity of Debian. It somehow manages to be more complex and confusing than both

I'm by no means an expert, but I don't recognize this. Would you be so kind to elaborate?

1, directly from the website Link

I hope you've now understood why -on Linux- you should never try to install stuff like how you were used to on Windows. Unless, you 100% know what you're doing.

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It’s a steering wheel driver.

Could you perhaps be more precise? Is it a specific one? Or are there a multitude of steering wheel drivers that satisfy your needs?

And virtualbox.

Do you specifically need VirtualBox? Or would Qemu/KVM satisfy your needs?

IIRC VirtualBox requires kernel mods. Therefore, you would have to create your own images 😅 in which said kernel mod is included. FWIW, both uBlue's templates and BlueBuild do a wonderful job at streamlining this process.

Or..., as alluded before, you don't necessarily need VirtualBox. But, instead, Qemu/KVM perfectly satisfy your needs. Then, you can just run ujust setup-virtualization. After which you reboot, and you would be good to go.

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