Covid. I used to think people were basically good and caring, trying to do the right thing. I also used to think that everyone besides me was better at dealing with stress.
Turned out my life really is so bad that a global pandemic actually reduced my stress level. And when other people are stressed, they use that as an excuse to treat everyone else abominably. People are fundamentally selfish and self-centered. Kindness is at best a veneer for the vast majority.
Kindness is at best a veneer for the vast majority.
I admire your clarity of thought here.
The pandemic did reduce my stress level temporarily by getting me away from people pleasing behavior but it also made me feel kinda jaded about people for a while.
I like your username. How did you come up with it if you don't mind sharing?
Thanks!
I really love analogies. People make fun of me for it, and I don't even mind. I used to have friends play a game where one would name a random object, and another a random intangible and I'd have to come up with an analogy to explain the latter using the former.
All that follows is simply an opinion. Take everything with a grain of salt. Feel free to discuss.
Human are social creatures and relationships is a basic human need. Where I am from, the government enforced a curfew and stopped people from having relationships with their loved one. Stories of people dying alone or women giving birth alone.
When basic needs aren't met, we revert to survival instincts and try to meet these needs. To me, that explains why people that were seemingly caring turned out to be dicks when their needs weren't met.
Shitty people were going to be shitty anyways.
For people that need less social interactions, it feels like it's fucking bonkers how people were getting desperate for social interactions and throwing caution to the wind. It felt like they were crazy.
Just like an hungry man in front of a plentiful buffet, these people tasted social interactions and told themselves never again!
It was a short time in history where less social people were better off than the rest. After covid brought a lot of tension because social persons clawed back at what was acquired by the less social people.
And to me, that explains a lot of what we saw and see right now.
And again, shitty people are gonna be shitty people regardless of the situation, so that observation doesn't apply to them.
My needs have never been met. Never. Yet I have managed to not be a dick for decades.
I assure you that to someone else, you've been a dick without you knowing.
We judge ourselves by our intentions and the others by their actions. So it's easy to point at everyone around being a dick without realising that in that moment, that person isn't necessarily thinking that they are a dick.
And again, some people are really shitty people regardless of the situation. So it doesn't apply to them.
I'm not taking about accidental or unconscious dickery. I'm talking about deliberately being an ass because you feel you have a right to it.
Do you think that the context matters then? Covid or not, these people are gonna be ass.
If you think that people were fundamentally bad and hiding behind a facade until covid, then I am not sure what there is to discuss.
I am not sure what you are trying to convey here.
Yes. I think people were fundamentally selfish and self-centered, and the minute they felt inconvenienced, they took it as an excuse to be assholes.
Before Covid, they didn't feel the same pressure, so used kindness as social grease to benefit themselves. Covid proved that the average person's kindness is less a character trait than a cost/benefit analysis.
I agree with Analogy's take on this. I don't think it's based on 'needs'. Selfish people are, and have always been selfish regardless of the situation. Stress does exacerbate it of course. And it's unfortunately the case that we live in a world that doesn't reward kindness. But despite this there are a lot of people that are kind because they want to be, because it's rewarding for it's own sake.
I’m absolutely on Analogy’s side, as well.
I think where we disagree is that people were merely inconvenienced. Social relationships are a basic human need and there is a lot of ongoing research on the effects of social isolation caused by Covid.
And with that said, I don't think I can change your mind on the covid situation.
I hope that you can find people that can and will meet your needs.
Let me offer a counterexample. I was in NYC on 9/11. I saw the first tower burning and I saw the second plane hit. I watched incredulously when they fell.
The entire city froze. It was the first and only time NYC went silent. No cars, no construction, no one yelling. There has to have been at least 5000 people packed into a large crowd outside of Penn station, but no one was shoving or yelling for them to open the doors.
NY actually stated like that for a while. It was surreal - it felt like a dream. But the city really did come together. People were more kind and helpful to strangers. They were more aware of their neighbors and their needs. People were handing out food and blankets on the streets, trying to get through the massive disruption. I saw no rioting, no crime surge despite the fact that emergency services were completely tied up.
Yes. People react differently to acute vs. chronic stress. I've seen it time and again. People are happy to help if it's short-term. Then they get the feel-goods. But if there's nothing in it for them, if they feel inconvenienced by ongoing suffering, charity dries up like tears in the Sahara. Very few are willing to be kind even when they don't get to feel like a hero doing it.
Covid. I used to think people were basically good and caring, trying to do the right thing. I also used to think that everyone besides me was better at dealing with stress.
Turned out my life really is so bad that a global pandemic actually reduced my stress level. And when other people are stressed, they use that as an excuse to treat everyone else abominably. People are fundamentally selfish and self-centered. Kindness is at best a veneer for the vast majority.
I admire your clarity of thought here.
The pandemic did reduce my stress level temporarily by getting me away from people pleasing behavior but it also made me feel kinda jaded about people for a while.
I like your username. How did you come up with it if you don't mind sharing?
Thanks!
I really love analogies. People make fun of me for it, and I don't even mind. I used to have friends play a game where one would name a random object, and another a random intangible and I'd have to come up with an analogy to explain the latter using the former.
All that follows is simply an opinion. Take everything with a grain of salt. Feel free to discuss.
Human are social creatures and relationships is a basic human need. Where I am from, the government enforced a curfew and stopped people from having relationships with their loved one. Stories of people dying alone or women giving birth alone.
When basic needs aren't met, we revert to survival instincts and try to meet these needs. To me, that explains why people that were seemingly caring turned out to be dicks when their needs weren't met.
Shitty people were going to be shitty anyways.
For people that need less social interactions, it feels like it's fucking bonkers how people were getting desperate for social interactions and throwing caution to the wind. It felt like they were crazy.
Just like an hungry man in front of a plentiful buffet, these people tasted social interactions and told themselves never again!
It was a short time in history where less social people were better off than the rest. After covid brought a lot of tension because social persons clawed back at what was acquired by the less social people.
And to me, that explains a lot of what we saw and see right now.
And again, shitty people are gonna be shitty people regardless of the situation, so that observation doesn't apply to them.
My needs have never been met. Never. Yet I have managed to not be a dick for decades.
I assure you that to someone else, you've been a dick without you knowing.
We judge ourselves by our intentions and the others by their actions. So it's easy to point at everyone around being a dick without realising that in that moment, that person isn't necessarily thinking that they are a dick.
And again, some people are really shitty people regardless of the situation. So it doesn't apply to them.
I'm not taking about accidental or unconscious dickery. I'm talking about deliberately being an ass because you feel you have a right to it.
Do you think that the context matters then? Covid or not, these people are gonna be ass.
If you think that people were fundamentally bad and hiding behind a facade until covid, then I am not sure what there is to discuss.
I am not sure what you are trying to convey here.
Yes. I think people were fundamentally selfish and self-centered, and the minute they felt inconvenienced, they took it as an excuse to be assholes.
Before Covid, they didn't feel the same pressure, so used kindness as social grease to benefit themselves. Covid proved that the average person's kindness is less a character trait than a cost/benefit analysis.
I agree with Analogy's take on this. I don't think it's based on 'needs'. Selfish people are, and have always been selfish regardless of the situation. Stress does exacerbate it of course. And it's unfortunately the case that we live in a world that doesn't reward kindness. But despite this there are a lot of people that are kind because they want to be, because it's rewarding for it's own sake.
I’m absolutely on Analogy’s side, as well.
I think where we disagree is that people were merely inconvenienced. Social relationships are a basic human need and there is a lot of ongoing research on the effects of social isolation caused by Covid.
And with that said, I don't think I can change your mind on the covid situation.
I hope that you can find people that can and will meet your needs.
Let me offer a counterexample. I was in NYC on 9/11. I saw the first tower burning and I saw the second plane hit. I watched incredulously when they fell.
The entire city froze. It was the first and only time NYC went silent. No cars, no construction, no one yelling. There has to have been at least 5000 people packed into a large crowd outside of Penn station, but no one was shoving or yelling for them to open the doors.
NY actually stated like that for a while. It was surreal - it felt like a dream. But the city really did come together. People were more kind and helpful to strangers. They were more aware of their neighbors and their needs. People were handing out food and blankets on the streets, trying to get through the massive disruption. I saw no rioting, no crime surge despite the fact that emergency services were completely tied up.
Yes. People react differently to acute vs. chronic stress. I've seen it time and again. People are happy to help if it's short-term. Then they get the feel-goods. But if there's nothing in it for them, if they feel inconvenienced by ongoing suffering, charity dries up like tears in the Sahara. Very few are willing to be kind even when they don't get to feel like a hero doing it.