I installed birdsite recently and actually saw tankies for the first time in my life.
Sweet Krolm, the Rat God, what bullshit do they post.
Shit like "If it was a soviet 'crime' that means it wasn't a crime at all"
You should hear what they have to say about the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Apparently failing to stop the nazis is worse than actively assisting them in conquering and oppressing Poland.
You don't think they made up for it a little with 8 million+ dead soldiers fighting the Nazis? And ya kno, getting to Berlin first and ending the European theater of WWII?
No? What the fuck? That's not how morality works. Nothing about the Soviet Union's values or how they made decisions changed, as evidenced by them continuing to engage in oppression and imperialist aggression right up until basically the day they collapsed.
The soviet people and the soviet government are not the same thing. What is it with nationalists equating the state with the people subjected to it?
ohhhh of course! how silly of us! I'm sure all the queers who lost their lives to the Soviets feel sooooo much better in their graves knowing that. tell you what, why don't you dig some up, tell them what you just said, and see how they react. what's that? they can't reply? because they're dead? well who would have fucking thought. moron
Fun fact: Mentioning the Nazi-Soviet pact is a Federal crime in Russia today.
This is historical revisionism peddled by reddit to the point that large swathes of people that used the site are extremely misinformed about the actual timeline of events. The soviets did absolutely everything they could to try and convince France and the UK to take action against Hitler but they were hoping Hitler would attack the USSR. They entered into a non-aggression pact with the nazis, after everyone else already had, and the soviet archives confirm there was no intent to "invade" Poland at the time of its signing. The move was only made after the polish government abandoned the country fleeing the nazis, and by moving into the ungoverned eastern Poland they saved 2 million jews.
The ACTUAL historic timeline is like this:
1: The United States Bourgeoisie bankrolled the rise of fascism in Europe.
2: The bourgeois leaders of England, France, Poland, Finland and other Western European nations either ignored, enabled, or appeased Hitler's worst behavior in the buildup to WW2.
3: The bourgeois leaders of these countries, England in particular, pushed for disastrous bilateral security arrangements which created a domino effect leading to war, while ignoring the USSR's suggestion of collective, anti-fascist security arrangements.
4: The bourgeois leaders of these countries pursued a policy not of containing fascist aggression, but of diplomatically isolating the USSR, in the hopes that Hitler would go East and carry out an anti-communist genocide on their behalf.
5: The bourgeois leaders of these countries, having ignored or stalled collective security proposals from the USSR, actively made bilateral non-aggression pacts with Hitler before Molotov-Ribbentrop was signed, making the USSR the last in a long line of nations to sign non-aggression pacts with Hitler, after the USSR's collective security proposals fell through.
6: The USSR only signed Molotov-Ribbentrop to buy time. The USSR only invaded East Poland to prevent a German front from forming right at the Soviet border. This is because attempts to make mutual security arrangements with Poland fell through. The Soviets only moved into the region after the existing government had literally fled the country, leaving it ungoverned. 2 million jews in eastern poland were saved from the nazis by this action.
7: The USSR tried to purchase a strategic corridor of land from Finland that the nazis could easily use to invade the USSR. The USSR not only wanted to legally purchase this land from Finland, but to trade Finland more acres of land in exchange. i.e. an asymmetrical trade that would have ultimately benefited Finland. Finland refused because the fascist leadership of Finland wanted to see Germany invade the USSR through this strategic corridor. This led directly to the Winter War. The Finnish lost the winter war but used their intelligence that they gathered during it to collaborate with the nazis.
8: When the North Atlantic allies finally teamed up with USSR after their strategy of appeasing Hitler backfired, they immediately attempted to make asymmetrical security arrangements that would have obligated the USSR to commit far more troops and resources to the war than any other ally, essentially using the USSR as a shield against the very fascist powers they had spent the better part of a decade appeasing. The British in particular kept stalling on arrangements and pretending to be confused.
9: When the war was over the North Atlantic allies, led by the USA, who came out of the war richer than any other country on Earth, immediately committed to rehabilitating nazis, blaming the USSR, who was decimated by the war, for causing the war, and created NATO to begin encircling the USSR, 6 years before the creation of the Warsaw pact.
10: The North Atlantic allies immediately set to using the Marshall plan to rebuild the fascist German, Italian, and Japanese economies, indebting them to the United States, and orienting them towards anti-communist policy.
11: The North Atlantic allies to tried to use the Marshall plan as a proto-IMF to privatize and deregulate the economy of the war-torn USSR, and open it up to foreign capital. That the USSR rejected this was framed as aggression and used as a justification for beginning the cold war.
But hey, don't just take my word for it, or this rough outline of what is contained in well regarded books (I implore you to read some). How about we read Albert Einstein's words spoken at the time these events actually occurred?
A lot to unpack in this speech but the basics of what Einstein says are:
The USSR made all efforts to stop the war happening.
The western powers(UK, France, US, etc) shut the USSR out of European discussions and betrayed Czechoslovakia.
Molotov-Ribbentrop was an unhappy last resort that they were driven to, that the western powers were attempting to drive the nazis into attacking the USSR and that's why they would not help the USSR stop them.
The USSR supported everyone while the other powers (UK, France, US, etc) strengthened the nazis and Japanese.
Confirming pretty much everything I just said above in one speech. Not sure if we're calling Einstein a tankie or not these days?
I installed birdsite recently and actually saw tankies for the first time in my life.
Sweet Krolm, the Rat God, what bullshit do they post.
Shit like "If it was a soviet 'crime' that means it wasn't a crime at all"
You should hear what they have to say about the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Apparently failing to stop the nazis is worse than actively assisting them in conquering and oppressing Poland.
You don't think they made up for it a little with 8 million+ dead soldiers fighting the Nazis? And ya kno, getting to Berlin first and ending the European theater of WWII?
No? What the fuck? That's not how morality works. Nothing about the Soviet Union's values or how they made decisions changed, as evidenced by them continuing to engage in oppression and imperialist aggression right up until basically the day they collapsed.
The soviet people and the soviet government are not the same thing. What is it with nationalists equating the state with the people subjected to it?
ohhhh of course! how silly of us! I'm sure all the queers who lost their lives to the Soviets feel sooooo much better in their graves knowing that. tell you what, why don't you dig some up, tell them what you just said, and see how they react. what's that? they can't reply? because they're dead? well who would have fucking thought. moron
Fun fact: Mentioning the Nazi-Soviet pact is a Federal crime in Russia today.
This is historical revisionism peddled by reddit to the point that large swathes of people that used the site are extremely misinformed about the actual timeline of events. The soviets did absolutely everything they could to try and convince France and the UK to take action against Hitler but they were hoping Hitler would attack the USSR. They entered into a non-aggression pact with the nazis, after everyone else already had, and the soviet archives confirm there was no intent to "invade" Poland at the time of its signing. The move was only made after the polish government abandoned the country fleeing the nazis, and by moving into the ungoverned eastern Poland they saved 2 million jews.
The ACTUAL historic timeline is like this:
1: The United States Bourgeoisie bankrolled the rise of fascism in Europe.
2: The bourgeois leaders of England, France, Poland, Finland and other Western European nations either ignored, enabled, or appeased Hitler's worst behavior in the buildup to WW2.
3: The bourgeois leaders of these countries, England in particular, pushed for disastrous bilateral security arrangements which created a domino effect leading to war, while ignoring the USSR's suggestion of collective, anti-fascist security arrangements.
4: The bourgeois leaders of these countries pursued a policy not of containing fascist aggression, but of diplomatically isolating the USSR, in the hopes that Hitler would go East and carry out an anti-communist genocide on their behalf.
5: The bourgeois leaders of these countries, having ignored or stalled collective security proposals from the USSR, actively made bilateral non-aggression pacts with Hitler before Molotov-Ribbentrop was signed, making the USSR the last in a long line of nations to sign non-aggression pacts with Hitler, after the USSR's collective security proposals fell through.
6: The USSR only signed Molotov-Ribbentrop to buy time. The USSR only invaded East Poland to prevent a German front from forming right at the Soviet border. This is because attempts to make mutual security arrangements with Poland fell through. The Soviets only moved into the region after the existing government had literally fled the country, leaving it ungoverned. 2 million jews in eastern poland were saved from the nazis by this action.
7: The USSR tried to purchase a strategic corridor of land from Finland that the nazis could easily use to invade the USSR. The USSR not only wanted to legally purchase this land from Finland, but to trade Finland more acres of land in exchange. i.e. an asymmetrical trade that would have ultimately benefited Finland. Finland refused because the fascist leadership of Finland wanted to see Germany invade the USSR through this strategic corridor. This led directly to the Winter War. The Finnish lost the winter war but used their intelligence that they gathered during it to collaborate with the nazis.
8: When the North Atlantic allies finally teamed up with USSR after their strategy of appeasing Hitler backfired, they immediately attempted to make asymmetrical security arrangements that would have obligated the USSR to commit far more troops and resources to the war than any other ally, essentially using the USSR as a shield against the very fascist powers they had spent the better part of a decade appeasing. The British in particular kept stalling on arrangements and pretending to be confused.
9: When the war was over the North Atlantic allies, led by the USA, who came out of the war richer than any other country on Earth, immediately committed to rehabilitating nazis, blaming the USSR, who was decimated by the war, for causing the war, and created NATO to begin encircling the USSR, 6 years before the creation of the Warsaw pact.
10: The North Atlantic allies immediately set to using the Marshall plan to rebuild the fascist German, Italian, and Japanese economies, indebting them to the United States, and orienting them towards anti-communist policy.
11: The North Atlantic allies to tried to use the Marshall plan as a proto-IMF to privatize and deregulate the economy of the war-torn USSR, and open it up to foreign capital. That the USSR rejected this was framed as aggression and used as a justification for beginning the cold war.
But hey, don't just take my word for it, or this rough outline of what is contained in well regarded books (I implore you to read some). How about we read Albert Einstein's words spoken at the time these events actually occurred?
A lot to unpack in this speech but the basics of what Einstein says are:
The USSR made all efforts to stop the war happening.
The western powers(UK, France, US, etc) shut the USSR out of European discussions and betrayed Czechoslovakia.
Molotov-Ribbentrop was an unhappy last resort that they were driven to, that the western powers were attempting to drive the nazis into attacking the USSR and that's why they would not help the USSR stop them.
The USSR supported everyone while the other powers (UK, France, US, etc) strengthened the nazis and Japanese.
Confirming pretty much everything I just said above in one speech. Not sure if we're calling Einstein a tankie or not these days?
Larpers.