Your direct claims were unsupported by any evidence aside from you expecting me to read an entire book by a far right, self-hating black man. There were Jews that supported Hitler too. That didn't make their claims correct. Furthermore, I would never suggest someone read an entire book in order to find out whether or not my claims are accurate. That's silly and unreasonable.
I don’t think that he is self-hating. He is a doctorate and senior fellow at Stanford, having taught Econ at my alma mater among many others. I think that he is attempting to address and recommend fixes for the problem. He is not far right and has indicated he is not affiliated with a political party. It’s a short book, I can allude to the evidence, but he does a great job of describing it succinctly.
Sowell’s main thesis in this essay is that what we know today as “black culture” is actually “white redneck culture” or “cracker culture” which “originated not in the South but in those parts of the British Isles from which white Southerners came. That culture long ago died out where it originated in Britain, while surviving in the American South. Then it largely died out among both white and black Southerners, while still surviving today in the poorest and worst of the urban black ghettos.” (p. 1-2)
To build his case, Sowell marshals a number of observations about language, work habits, pride, violence, and economic activity. He argues that these characteristics are common to “black culture” in urban ghettoes, “cracker culture” in the South, and the culture of the “northern borderlands of England” from which “most of the common white people of the South came” (p. 3). Thus, the culture of 21st century ghettos did not originate with Blacks but with 17th-century whites in England.
For example, he cites multiple contemporary sources who noticed Southerners’ lax work ethic,
“‘No southern man,’ South Carolina’s famed Senator John C. Calhoun said, ‘not even the poorest or the lowest, will, under any circumstances… perform menial labor… He has too much pride for that.‘ General Robert E. Lee likewise declared: ‘Our people are opposed to work. Our troops officers community & press. All ridicule & resist it.’ ‘Many whites,’ according to a leading Southern historian, ‘were disposed to leave good enough alone and put off changes till the morrow'” (p. 18).
In terms of education, he notes that: “As late as the census of 1850, more than one-fifth of Southern whites were still illiterate, compared to less than one percent of New Englanders” (p. 22) and “As late as the First World War, white soldiers from Georgia, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Mississippi scored lower on mental tests than black soldiers from Ohio, Illinois, and Pennsylvania” (p. 23).
What’s clever about Sowell’s argument here is that progressives tend to attribute poverty to injustice, minimizing the effects of culture and personal choice. Yet it seems difficult to characterize white antebellum Southerners as “oppressed.” Consequently, progressives have to remain open to the possibility that the disparities noted by Sowell are a product of cultural differences between the North and the South. Once this connection is made between culture and disparities, why rule out such a connection when it comes to modern racial disparities?
This question becomes particularly important when we notice similar disparities within racial groups. For instance, “[t]he 1970 census showed that black West Indian families in the New York metropolitan area had 28 percent higher incomes than the families of American blacks. The incomes of second-generation West Indian families living in the same area exceeded that of black families by 58 percent. Neither race or racism can explain such differences. Nor can slavery, since native-born blacks and West Indian blacks both had a history of slavery. Studies published in 2004 indicated that an absolute majority of the black alumni of Harvard were either West Indian or African immigrants, or the children of these immigrants. Somewhat similar findings have emerged in studies of some other elite colleges. With blacks as with whites, the redneck culture has been a less achieving culture” (p. 32-33).
Sowell has argued that systemic racism is an untested, questionable hypothesis, writing, "I don't think even the people who use it have any clear idea what they're saying", and compared it to propaganda tactics used by Joseph Goebbels because if it is "repeated long enough and loud enough", people "cave in" to it.
...
In Intellectuals and Race (2013), Sowell argues that intelligence quotient (IQ) gaps are hardly startling or unusual between, or within, ethnic groups. He notes that the roughly 15-point gap in contemporary black–white IQ scores is similar to that between the national average and the scores of certain ethnic white groups in years past, in periods when the nation was absorbing new immigrants
You're promoting a far-right self-hating eugenicist. You are lying when you say you're on the left.
There is a difference between genetics and eugenics. Eugenics seeks to modify progeny in order to weed out defects and promote certain characteristics. He is not propping up that line-of-thought. He is speaking to the genetic predisposition of ethnic groups. We all belong to different genotypes/phenotypes. I’m ashkenazi. We pretty much run everything and solve big problems. It’s kind of what we do. There was a ton of genetic variation in Africa. I don’t think that Sowell even was attempting to imply less IQ among black people and was showing a similar gradient as compared to other genetic backgrounds. His whole argument is nurture over nature. Systemic racism is just racism. Sure, there was some past redlining, but those issues have been corrected. I had nothing to do with past redlining and my taxes shouldn’t have to make concessions.
I had nothing to do with past redlining and my taxes shouldn’t have to make concessions.
What are you even talking about now?
The argument that CRT people make is that generational wealth was deprived from black people because tactics were used to keep them out of neighborhoods with nice houses and/or many banks did not want to provide them with mortgages. This is called redlining and it didn’t just happen to black people. Jews and many others had these issues too. While the other ethnic groups on average have grown into middle class society, the crutch of Affirmative Action and endless welfare checks have simply caused the creation of overpopulated drug ghettos.
This has nothing to do with what we're discussing. You clearly have nothing further to add.
I successfully defended my source and his notions. That’s what I contributed. He’s a champion of the black community. People should listen to him.
Sure he is. Weird how few black people you will find that accept him as their champion. Pretty much only the Republican ones.
Are you even black or just speaking for all of them?
Cute. You've been talking about what would be better for black people and how they should abandon their community and now you accuse me of speaking for black people.
But sure, the vast majority black people who all have a culture that Thomas Sowell hates agree with him. Logical. I don't see how I never saw that before.
I think most black people want to fix the criminal anti-education elements of their culture that are keeping them all down. In the same vein, I hope for the Hasids to abandon their culture of collective trauma ghettos because they make my culture look really bad. Also, the whole thing in Israel. 😬 I prefer my government without a side of religion.
Have been reading all the classic political literature including Plato’s Republic, Locke’s Treatises, De Tocqueville’s Democracy in America, etc. and they all promote seperation of church and state. They also recognize that colonialism can be damaging. Also, that the way that a society deals with inheritance dictates a lot of things. Lastly that education and a culture of caring about your community and quality work ethic are key.
To summarize, the writings over the past 2k+ years are still easier to read than I could have possibly imagined and the context repeats itself over and over again. It’s pretty crazy. It always says that cultures that value education and work ethic succeed. Sowell mentions that the cultures that act as the middleman between different economies become the most prosperous, but also are the scapegoats when things aren’t looking too good. The blacks that I have hired come from backgrounds that prize education. They are liberal, but follow Sowell’s principles. They have learned the tough engineering skills that I’ve taught them, but have a knack for dealing with our customers with a human touch that I can’t always bring to the table. I’m just saying that more people need to adopt their version of the culture.
Weren't you the one accusing me of speaking for all black people? What did you just do?
Your direct claims were unsupported by any evidence aside from you expecting me to read an entire book by a far right, self-hating black man. There were Jews that supported Hitler too. That didn't make their claims correct. Furthermore, I would never suggest someone read an entire book in order to find out whether or not my claims are accurate. That's silly and unreasonable.
I don’t think that he is self-hating. He is a doctorate and senior fellow at Stanford, having taught Econ at my alma mater among many others. I think that he is attempting to address and recommend fixes for the problem. He is not far right and has indicated he is not affiliated with a political party. It’s a short book, I can allude to the evidence, but he does a great job of describing it succinctly.
Sowell’s main thesis in this essay is that what we know today as “black culture” is actually “white redneck culture” or “cracker culture” which “originated not in the South but in those parts of the British Isles from which white Southerners came. That culture long ago died out where it originated in Britain, while surviving in the American South. Then it largely died out among both white and black Southerners, while still surviving today in the poorest and worst of the urban black ghettos.” (p. 1-2)
To build his case, Sowell marshals a number of observations about language, work habits, pride, violence, and economic activity. He argues that these characteristics are common to “black culture” in urban ghettoes, “cracker culture” in the South, and the culture of the “northern borderlands of England” from which “most of the common white people of the South came” (p. 3). Thus, the culture of 21st century ghettos did not originate with Blacks but with 17th-century whites in England.
For example, he cites multiple contemporary sources who noticed Southerners’ lax work ethic,
“‘No southern man,’ South Carolina’s famed Senator John C. Calhoun said, ‘not even the poorest or the lowest, will, under any circumstances… perform menial labor… He has too much pride for that.‘ General Robert E. Lee likewise declared: ‘Our people are opposed to work. Our troops officers community & press. All ridicule & resist it.’ ‘Many whites,’ according to a leading Southern historian, ‘were disposed to leave good enough alone and put off changes till the morrow'” (p. 18).
In terms of education, he notes that: “As late as the census of 1850, more than one-fifth of Southern whites were still illiterate, compared to less than one percent of New Englanders” (p. 22) and “As late as the First World War, white soldiers from Georgia, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Mississippi scored lower on mental tests than black soldiers from Ohio, Illinois, and Pennsylvania” (p. 23).
What’s clever about Sowell’s argument here is that progressives tend to attribute poverty to injustice, minimizing the effects of culture and personal choice. Yet it seems difficult to characterize white antebellum Southerners as “oppressed.” Consequently, progressives have to remain open to the possibility that the disparities noted by Sowell are a product of cultural differences between the North and the South. Once this connection is made between culture and disparities, why rule out such a connection when it comes to modern racial disparities?
This question becomes particularly important when we notice similar disparities within racial groups. For instance, “[t]he 1970 census showed that black West Indian families in the New York metropolitan area had 28 percent higher incomes than the families of American blacks. The incomes of second-generation West Indian families living in the same area exceeded that of black families by 58 percent. Neither race or racism can explain such differences. Nor can slavery, since native-born blacks and West Indian blacks both had a history of slavery. Studies published in 2004 indicated that an absolute majority of the black alumni of Harvard were either West Indian or African immigrants, or the children of these immigrants. Somewhat similar findings have emerged in studies of some other elite colleges. With blacks as with whites, the redneck culture has been a less achieving culture” (p. 32-33).
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell#Race_and_ethnicity
You're promoting a far-right self-hating eugenicist. You are lying when you say you're on the left.
There is a difference between genetics and eugenics. Eugenics seeks to modify progeny in order to weed out defects and promote certain characteristics. He is not propping up that line-of-thought. He is speaking to the genetic predisposition of ethnic groups. We all belong to different genotypes/phenotypes. I’m ashkenazi. We pretty much run everything and solve big problems. It’s kind of what we do. There was a ton of genetic variation in Africa. I don’t think that Sowell even was attempting to imply less IQ among black people and was showing a similar gradient as compared to other genetic backgrounds. His whole argument is nurture over nature. Systemic racism is just racism. Sure, there was some past redlining, but those issues have been corrected. I had nothing to do with past redlining and my taxes shouldn’t have to make concessions.
What are you even talking about now?
The argument that CRT people make is that generational wealth was deprived from black people because tactics were used to keep them out of neighborhoods with nice houses and/or many banks did not want to provide them with mortgages. This is called redlining and it didn’t just happen to black people. Jews and many others had these issues too. While the other ethnic groups on average have grown into middle class society, the crutch of Affirmative Action and endless welfare checks have simply caused the creation of overpopulated drug ghettos.
This has nothing to do with what we're discussing. You clearly have nothing further to add.
I successfully defended my source and his notions. That’s what I contributed. He’s a champion of the black community. People should listen to him.
Sure he is. Weird how few black people you will find that accept him as their champion. Pretty much only the Republican ones.
Are you even black or just speaking for all of them?
Cute. You've been talking about what would be better for black people and how they should abandon their community and now you accuse me of speaking for black people.
But sure, the vast majority black people who all have a culture that Thomas Sowell hates agree with him. Logical. I don't see how I never saw that before.
I think most black people want to fix the criminal anti-education elements of their culture that are keeping them all down. In the same vein, I hope for the Hasids to abandon their culture of collective trauma ghettos because they make my culture look really bad. Also, the whole thing in Israel. 😬 I prefer my government without a side of religion.
Have been reading all the classic political literature including Plato’s Republic, Locke’s Treatises, De Tocqueville’s Democracy in America, etc. and they all promote seperation of church and state. They also recognize that colonialism can be damaging. Also, that the way that a society deals with inheritance dictates a lot of things. Lastly that education and a culture of caring about your community and quality work ethic are key.
To summarize, the writings over the past 2k+ years are still easier to read than I could have possibly imagined and the context repeats itself over and over again. It’s pretty crazy. It always says that cultures that value education and work ethic succeed. Sowell mentions that the cultures that act as the middleman between different economies become the most prosperous, but also are the scapegoats when things aren’t looking too good. The blacks that I have hired come from backgrounds that prize education. They are liberal, but follow Sowell’s principles. They have learned the tough engineering skills that I’ve taught them, but have a knack for dealing with our customers with a human touch that I can’t always bring to the table. I’m just saying that more people need to adopt their version of the culture.
Weren't you the one accusing me of speaking for all black people? What did you just do?