I'm not buying an EV not because of lack of infrastructure or lack of interest, but because the product sucks.
I'm not buying a gas car either for the same product sucking reason, and an active desire to never purchase a gas car again.
You are very wrong. The product most definitely does not suck.
Petrol cars are unbelievably good right now even from bad manufacturers like Chrysler the reliability is through the roof.
Electric cars have come a long way they still have their hiccups but in general they function perfectly fine now. I most definitely will not recommend getting a Tesla from 2013 but something like a Chevy volt or a Volkswagen or a mustang EV are very very good cars.
Subscriptions to use any part of my car and even more tracking than my ICE car are part of the product, and that sucks. I beg to differ on me being wrong, on those two counts specifically.
No matter what the stability, reliability, and safety are, the two things I mentioned are each sufficient grounds to not buy pretty much any of the modern cars, EV or ICE.
What a weird outlook you have. I don't even have a way to rebut it. You simultaneously agree and disagree with me. And at the same time still your only qualification that makes a car bad is the software which you personally do not like.
There are a myriad of cars out there that don't have this kind of software built into it. There are even EVs that don't have the software built into it.
I even agree with you I drive a Volkswagen id4 and the software in it is beyond horrific there have been times where I had to sit around poking around menus trying to figure out how to make my car actually run.
However, in my interpretation the benefits significantly outweigh the negatives of owning an electric vehicle not being tethered to gasoline is an extremely freeing experience. It is also significantly cheaper.
I feel like you just made something up so you don't have to like EVs.
I feel like you just made something up so you don't have to like EVs.
The fact that this is your takeaway from my messages (in addition to your general tone) just shows you are trying to push a self-righteous agenda without properly identifying who are your allies and opponents. I abhor ICEs and would have bought an EV by now if not for the scummy companies producing them, and the fact that I basically do not drive anymore so switching my relatively unused car out for any replacement vehicle does not make sense. I'd sooner just sell the car and wash my hands of them entirely.
What a weird outlook you have.
Not likely subscription services and the car manufacturers tracking me is not "weird" it's well justified. I don't like my insurance company tracking me either which is why I heavily restrict the permissions their app has (and use a second phone for it). ICE and EV manufacturers have immense overlap and I've yet to hear of one that actually respects their customers and doesn't turn their products into drivable spyware.
I don't even have a way to rebut it.
Perhaps you should quit the contrarian behavior since you're not putting in the effort to be one. You've already demonstrated you aren't putting in the effort to read my messages by openly misidentifying me as an EV hater.
You said that reliability and all that is irrelevant, only the tracking and the software on the vehicles is why you don't like them.
Your original comment said that modern cars suck or a crappy my rebuttle was that they are not they're significantly more reliable than older cars even from crappy manufacturers.
What in your comments above has anything to do with that?
The world changes things become better and things become worse the fact that you don't like it is completely irrelevant back in the 80s you could use a flathead screwdriver to start up a car you can't do that anymore because of modern software and technology.
So circling back around you are wrong, modern cars are better than older ones. Aside from your personal preference of not liking how they make cars today with the technology that's in them do you have anything to substantiate your claim?
What does a modern car get me over my 15 year old Corolla as far as reliability? Idk if I really need something that lasts longer, to be honest. I’ve put less than $1000 in this car other than wear items like tires in 15 years, and it cost less than $16k off the lot brand new. A new car would have to get like double the mileage or last a million miles without breaking down to be significantly better than mine, and it would have to be significantly better, because it’s going to cost significantly more even if I get the absolute cheapest cars on the market in their case trim.
Gas prices keep going up and electricity keeps getting cheaper. Factor in that and never having to pay for an oil change again and an electric car starts looking much cheaper.
I spend $30/month on gas. Electricity is gonna have to get a whoooole lot cheaper to justify at minimum $30,000 to purchase an EV. Maybe if we get rid of some of the protectionism and allow Chinese $10k EVs into the US I’d consider it. An oil change once a year over the course of owning a car is less than $1000… it costs $25 to do yourself, $50 to have someone else do it. That’s… not a significant cost for even the poorest of people.
Prices on used EVs are coming way down and there are significant tax rebates.
It is much cheaper. My 40k VW id4 on sticker costs me about 700 less than a 30k gas powered car with the payment being 500 dollars more!
I don't have to buy gas, change the oil and the brakes last longer due to regenerative braking.
I charge at home and haven't touched a gas pump since last summer.
I mean, if you’re well off enough to buy a $30k car, you’re better off than most Americans anyway. What about those of us that couldn’t afford that, and instead are faced with the choice of taking out exploitative loans and paying for years, or keeping our high mileage, high MPG vehicles?
It seems there’s an assumption that everyone eventually has to buy a new car, but that’s not true. I can count the number of people in my life who have ever bought a new car on one hand. The rest rely on old junkers they replace every couple years because $2000/2yrs is significantly more affordable for someone in poverty than $30,000+ in one year, or $500/mo payments for 5.
Like for me, I spend $30/mo on gas. That’s it. I spend about $25/yr on oil changes, I spend $75/every 2 years on emissions. I’d have to save a hell of a lot more than just gas and upkeep costs to save even a single dollar, and even then I’m definitively losing money over just keeping my car because I will have to pay payments for years because I don’t have the money to buy a new car outright. Personally, I will never buy a new car, nor take a loan for Car, so that puts EVs even further out of my reach. Wheres the $5-10k EVs that are present in much of the world? I don’t want a 16” tv in my dash, or heated seats, or a vision system, or rain sensing windows. I want a bare bones car, with no luxuries, for as cheap as possible, that is as efficient as possible. My 15 year old Corolla is better than the majority of modern cars available in my country in nearly every respect that is meaningful to me than any EVs available for sale in my country, every way except emissions. Unfortunately, my economic security takes priority over individualist attempts to address climate change.
My original comment was in the context of new versus new. If a person is going to buy a $30,000 car regardless it's cheaper to get an electric one because you never have to buy gas for it.
I have no idea why you're bringing up your 15-year-old Corolla or your personal operating cost for it why are you bringing up car sales in America new versus used none of this is relevant.
13 million new cars were sold in America in 2022 that is a substantial amount of cars the fact that more used cars were sold is more or less a sign of the times than anything else, moreover there has been a massive chip shortage less new cars are being made.
As a matter of fact statistically speaking the majority of people keep the cars they already bought for years and years at a time which means that car sales are going to go down anyway. So the fact that more used cars are being sold then new ones is also irrelevant.
Used electric cars are showing up more and more. You can get one for $10-15k and that's before you factor in the EV tax rebates.
I mean it's great that you personally have a 15-year-old reliable car. And yet people are still buying brand new cars every single day.
It's almost as though your personal preferences and property have absolutely no relevance in the buying habits of others.
I think you vastly overestimate how many people buy new cars. Most new cars are bought by the same group of people year after year. Almost 75% of cars purchased in America yearly are used. It’s really only a specific class of people who can afford to buy new cars. It is not the norm.
I'm not buying an EV not because of lack of infrastructure or lack of interest, but because the product sucks.
I'm not buying a gas car either for the same product sucking reason, and an active desire to never purchase a gas car again.
You are very wrong. The product most definitely does not suck.
Petrol cars are unbelievably good right now even from bad manufacturers like Chrysler the reliability is through the roof.
Electric cars have come a long way they still have their hiccups but in general they function perfectly fine now. I most definitely will not recommend getting a Tesla from 2013 but something like a Chevy volt or a Volkswagen or a mustang EV are very very good cars.
Subscriptions to use any part of my car and even more tracking than my ICE car are part of the product, and that sucks. I beg to differ on me being wrong, on those two counts specifically.
No matter what the stability, reliability, and safety are, the two things I mentioned are each sufficient grounds to not buy pretty much any of the modern cars, EV or ICE.
What a weird outlook you have. I don't even have a way to rebut it. You simultaneously agree and disagree with me. And at the same time still your only qualification that makes a car bad is the software which you personally do not like.
There are a myriad of cars out there that don't have this kind of software built into it. There are even EVs that don't have the software built into it.
I even agree with you I drive a Volkswagen id4 and the software in it is beyond horrific there have been times where I had to sit around poking around menus trying to figure out how to make my car actually run.
However, in my interpretation the benefits significantly outweigh the negatives of owning an electric vehicle not being tethered to gasoline is an extremely freeing experience. It is also significantly cheaper.
I feel like you just made something up so you don't have to like EVs.
You said that reliability and all that is irrelevant, only the tracking and the software on the vehicles is why you don't like them.
Your original comment said that modern cars suck or a crappy my rebuttle was that they are not they're significantly more reliable than older cars even from crappy manufacturers.
What in your comments above has anything to do with that?
The world changes things become better and things become worse the fact that you don't like it is completely irrelevant back in the 80s you could use a flathead screwdriver to start up a car you can't do that anymore because of modern software and technology.
So circling back around you are wrong, modern cars are better than older ones. Aside from your personal preference of not liking how they make cars today with the technology that's in them do you have anything to substantiate your claim?
What does a modern car get me over my 15 year old Corolla as far as reliability? Idk if I really need something that lasts longer, to be honest. I’ve put less than $1000 in this car other than wear items like tires in 15 years, and it cost less than $16k off the lot brand new. A new car would have to get like double the mileage or last a million miles without breaking down to be significantly better than mine, and it would have to be significantly better, because it’s going to cost significantly more even if I get the absolute cheapest cars on the market in their case trim.
Gas prices keep going up and electricity keeps getting cheaper. Factor in that and never having to pay for an oil change again and an electric car starts looking much cheaper.
I spend $30/month on gas. Electricity is gonna have to get a whoooole lot cheaper to justify at minimum $30,000 to purchase an EV. Maybe if we get rid of some of the protectionism and allow Chinese $10k EVs into the US I’d consider it. An oil change once a year over the course of owning a car is less than $1000… it costs $25 to do yourself, $50 to have someone else do it. That’s… not a significant cost for even the poorest of people.
Prices on used EVs are coming way down and there are significant tax rebates.
It is much cheaper. My 40k VW id4 on sticker costs me about 700 less than a 30k gas powered car with the payment being 500 dollars more!
I don't have to buy gas, change the oil and the brakes last longer due to regenerative braking.
I charge at home and haven't touched a gas pump since last summer.
I mean, if you’re well off enough to buy a $30k car, you’re better off than most Americans anyway. What about those of us that couldn’t afford that, and instead are faced with the choice of taking out exploitative loans and paying for years, or keeping our high mileage, high MPG vehicles?
It seems there’s an assumption that everyone eventually has to buy a new car, but that’s not true. I can count the number of people in my life who have ever bought a new car on one hand. The rest rely on old junkers they replace every couple years because $2000/2yrs is significantly more affordable for someone in poverty than $30,000+ in one year, or $500/mo payments for 5.
Like for me, I spend $30/mo on gas. That’s it. I spend about $25/yr on oil changes, I spend $75/every 2 years on emissions. I’d have to save a hell of a lot more than just gas and upkeep costs to save even a single dollar, and even then I’m definitively losing money over just keeping my car because I will have to pay payments for years because I don’t have the money to buy a new car outright. Personally, I will never buy a new car, nor take a loan for Car, so that puts EVs even further out of my reach. Wheres the $5-10k EVs that are present in much of the world? I don’t want a 16” tv in my dash, or heated seats, or a vision system, or rain sensing windows. I want a bare bones car, with no luxuries, for as cheap as possible, that is as efficient as possible. My 15 year old Corolla is better than the majority of modern cars available in my country in nearly every respect that is meaningful to me than any EVs available for sale in my country, every way except emissions. Unfortunately, my economic security takes priority over individualist attempts to address climate change.
My original comment was in the context of new versus new. If a person is going to buy a $30,000 car regardless it's cheaper to get an electric one because you never have to buy gas for it.
I have no idea why you're bringing up your 15-year-old Corolla or your personal operating cost for it why are you bringing up car sales in America new versus used none of this is relevant.
13 million new cars were sold in America in 2022 that is a substantial amount of cars the fact that more used cars were sold is more or less a sign of the times than anything else, moreover there has been a massive chip shortage less new cars are being made.
As a matter of fact statistically speaking the majority of people keep the cars they already bought for years and years at a time which means that car sales are going to go down anyway. So the fact that more used cars are being sold then new ones is also irrelevant.
Used electric cars are showing up more and more. You can get one for $10-15k and that's before you factor in the EV tax rebates.
I mean it's great that you personally have a 15-year-old reliable car. And yet people are still buying brand new cars every single day.
It's almost as though your personal preferences and property have absolutely no relevance in the buying habits of others.
I think you vastly overestimate how many people buy new cars. Most new cars are bought by the same group of people year after year. Almost 75% of cars purchased in America yearly are used. It’s really only a specific class of people who can afford to buy new cars. It is not the norm.