He is being punished for running for president, that should be obvious. So again, please very directly tell me how people were harmed by trump. I can tell you how they benefitted.
I already told you. He broke a law designed to keep New Yorkers safe. That means he put New Yorkers at unnecessary risk.
It doesn't matter if any particular person was harmed, just like it doesn't matter if a drunk driver actually harms someone or if a person who shoots into a crowd actually harms anyone.
It also doesn't matter if anyone benefited from his illegal actions. If you put on an illegal fireworks show, maybe people benefit and maybe nobody gets hurt. You get punished nevertheless.
The law is the law. When you break it, you face punishment. End of story. Even if nobody was actually harmed, even if some people benefited.
And what was the risk to New Yorkers? Who exactly was defrauded by trump?
When Trump lied on his loan documents, his NY lenders assumed unnecessary risk. Along with any NY institutions that dealt with those lenders.
Are you suggesting that lying on loan documents is okay as long as you pay the loan back? Do you routinely lie on your credit card and mortgage applications to get a better rate?
Again, in underwriting they look at the properties and make a decision on their own. And what was the risk to New Yorkers? Who exactly was defrauded by trump?
Is the only thing that was wrong the square footage on an apartment?
The square footage was not the only thing that he lied about, you can read the court docs for the whole list.
The entire basis of finance is that lenders get paid more when borrowers have more risk. If you have a low credit score, lenders get paid more even if you make all your payments on time. But Trump lied, in order to avoid paying what they would have charged him if they knew the truth.
It really sounds like you are admitting to lying on credit card and loan applications in order to get better rates. How much money have you saved that way? Increase that by several orders of magnitude, and that's what New York lenders should have gotten from Trump.
Firstly, you dont understand how they underwriting process works, if you are actually intersted I can explain it. Secondly, you have not been able to tell me directly who was harmed and how. In any other fine like this that I am aware of, you could directly point to what they did and who was harmed (no one was harmed). Do you see the problem when the fine is half a billion and its missing those basic details?
I don't think you understand how the law works. If you break the law, you face the consequences. The penalty is meant to deter you from breaking the law again, it is not necessarily based on "who was directly harmed".
There are thousands of people in jail right now who did not directly harm anyone. Do you see the problem when Trump thinks that the law should not apply to him?
Again, you literally dont know what he even did, and what he did wasnt a crime.
Can you name one other judgement in the hundreds of millions where there was no direct victim?
I didn't say he committed a crime, I said he broke the law. And I told you what he did: he lied on loan documents.
Clearly you think lying should not be punished, but the law doesn't see things that way. Something to consider on your next loan application.
JPMorgan had to pay $200 million because employees communicated on Whatsapp instead of through approved channels. Nobody was directly harmed.
He didnt commit a crime or break the law. The problem is that you dont know about underwriting, and you wont ask about it because it blows up your case.
Good point on JP morgan, now lets take a look at the penalty. Trumps penalty was nearly over 1/2 of his networth or so (I dont know what it really is), and JP morgan was 1/2500th of their market cap. You see the difference?
Underwriting has nothing to do with the fact that it's illegal to lie on a loan document.
You are trying to make this about "direct harm", which means you don't understand how the law works. Just as there are "victimless crimes", one can violate the law without directly harming someone. I gave you many examples, Trump is just one of them.
"Nobody was harmed" is like "I didn't know it was illegal". They are not a valid defense.
Finally, penalties partly depend on your pattern of conduct. If a judge thinks you are likely to break the same law again, the penalty will be greater in order to deter you. JPMorgan was wise enough to admit wrongdoing and proactively enacted measures to make sure it would never happen again. Trump, at sentencing, still thought everything he did was 100% cool and legal. Trump brought that huge fine upon himself.
On each page it said that it was up to the lender to verify the information, you can claim its lying, but you would need to be very specific. I just mention direct harm because that is important to how much someone is penalized. And obviously the point of trumps penalty was not to stop him from breaking the law in the future... he is gonna die in the near future and is focused on politics.
Literally everything you have to say falls apart under basic scrutiny. You are just a partisan person that doesnt want to admit.
He is being punished for running for president, that should be obvious. So again, please very directly tell me how people were harmed by trump. I can tell you how they benefitted.
I already told you. He broke a law designed to keep New Yorkers safe. That means he put New Yorkers at unnecessary risk.
It doesn't matter if any particular person was harmed, just like it doesn't matter if a drunk driver actually harms someone or if a person who shoots into a crowd actually harms anyone.
It also doesn't matter if anyone benefited from his illegal actions. If you put on an illegal fireworks show, maybe people benefit and maybe nobody gets hurt. You get punished nevertheless.
The law is the law. When you break it, you face punishment. End of story. Even if nobody was actually harmed, even if some people benefited.
And what was the risk to New Yorkers? Who exactly was defrauded by trump?
When Trump lied on his loan documents, his NY lenders assumed unnecessary risk. Along with any NY institutions that dealt with those lenders.
Are you suggesting that lying on loan documents is okay as long as you pay the loan back? Do you routinely lie on your credit card and mortgage applications to get a better rate?
Again, in underwriting they look at the properties and make a decision on their own. And what was the risk to New Yorkers? Who exactly was defrauded by trump?
Is the only thing that was wrong the square footage on an apartment?
The square footage was not the only thing that he lied about, you can read the court docs for the whole list.
The entire basis of finance is that lenders get paid more when borrowers have more risk. If you have a low credit score, lenders get paid more even if you make all your payments on time. But Trump lied, in order to avoid paying what they would have charged him if they knew the truth.
It really sounds like you are admitting to lying on credit card and loan applications in order to get better rates. How much money have you saved that way? Increase that by several orders of magnitude, and that's what New York lenders should have gotten from Trump.
Firstly, you dont understand how they underwriting process works, if you are actually intersted I can explain it. Secondly, you have not been able to tell me directly who was harmed and how. In any other fine like this that I am aware of, you could directly point to what they did and who was harmed (no one was harmed). Do you see the problem when the fine is half a billion and its missing those basic details?
I don't think you understand how the law works. If you break the law, you face the consequences. The penalty is meant to deter you from breaking the law again, it is not necessarily based on "who was directly harmed".
There are thousands of people in jail right now who did not directly harm anyone. Do you see the problem when Trump thinks that the law should not apply to him?
Again, you literally dont know what he even did, and what he did wasnt a crime.
Can you name one other judgement in the hundreds of millions where there was no direct victim?
I didn't say he committed a crime, I said he broke the law. And I told you what he did: he lied on loan documents.
Clearly you think lying should not be punished, but the law doesn't see things that way. Something to consider on your next loan application.
JPMorgan had to pay $200 million because employees communicated on Whatsapp instead of through approved channels. Nobody was directly harmed.
He didnt commit a crime or break the law. The problem is that you dont know about underwriting, and you wont ask about it because it blows up your case.
Good point on JP morgan, now lets take a look at the penalty. Trumps penalty was nearly over 1/2 of his networth or so (I dont know what it really is), and JP morgan was 1/2500th of their market cap. You see the difference?
Underwriting has nothing to do with the fact that it's illegal to lie on a loan document.
You are trying to make this about "direct harm", which means you don't understand how the law works. Just as there are "victimless crimes", one can violate the law without directly harming someone. I gave you many examples, Trump is just one of them.
"Nobody was harmed" is like "I didn't know it was illegal". They are not a valid defense.
Finally, penalties partly depend on your pattern of conduct. If a judge thinks you are likely to break the same law again, the penalty will be greater in order to deter you. JPMorgan was wise enough to admit wrongdoing and proactively enacted measures to make sure it would never happen again. Trump, at sentencing, still thought everything he did was 100% cool and legal. Trump brought that huge fine upon himself.
On each page it said that it was up to the lender to verify the information, you can claim its lying, but you would need to be very specific. I just mention direct harm because that is important to how much someone is penalized. And obviously the point of trumps penalty was not to stop him from breaking the law in the future... he is gonna die in the near future and is focused on politics.
Literally everything you have to say falls apart under basic scrutiny. You are just a partisan person that doesnt want to admit.