On each page it said that it was up to the lender to verify the information, you can claim its lying, but you would need to be very specific. I just mention direct harm because that is important to how much someone is penalized. And obviously the point of trumps penalty was not to stop him from breaking the law in the future... he is gonna die in the near future and is focused on politics.
Literally everything you have to say falls apart under basic scrutiny. You are just a partisan person that doesnt want to admit.
He specifically lied when he claimed an 11K square foot apartment had an area of 30K square feet.
You cannot escape responsibility for obeying the law by acknowledging that you might not be obeying the law. Do you seriously think that you can fill out a false tax return and get away with it if you write "This might not be my actual income, it's up to the IRS to verify". Judge Engoron basically laughed that argument out of court.
Trump will almost certainly apply for more loans before he dies. After this judgment, hopefully he will fill out those applications truthfully.
Thank you for finally getting specific. The apartment probably included unfinished garage space, but why do you think that would change the valuation much? Why didnt the loan company verify the information which is literally part of their due diligence?
Your whole case behind giving a fine of 400 million or so is based on a difference of about a million in appraised value change, which apparently the bank didnt even care about.
Are you suggesting that lying on a document is legal if others can figure out the truth? That's not how the law works, at all.
Try reporting an income of $0 on your taxes this year. An obvious lie, but the IRS probably already knows your income. They probably even already collected your taxes. Nevertheless, you will face consequences.
If you claim a thing that is defensible and say that its up to the other person to verify it, then its just part of how things work. The real question is why do you care what agreement two parties come to and are happy about the outcome?
The IRS is different than a bank, and income is different than appraised value.
Claiming an 11K sqft apartment as 30K sqft is not defensible.
And no, that's not "just how things work". You imagine that we live in some libertarian dystopia, but we don't. There are laws that prohibit lying in many circumstances, and you can't disclaim your responsibility to tell the truth.
If you sell bottles labeled "Aspirin" that contain no aspirin, you will face severe consequences. Even if nobody buys your bottles and nobody is harmed. Even if you write "User is responsible for verifying whether this bottle contains aspirin".
Because laws specifically outlaw lying on medication bottles, just as laws specifically outlaw lying on loan documents.
The real question is why do you care what agreement two parties come to and are happy about the outcome?
I care about rule of law, which means that people face the consequences for breaking laws. It makes no difference whether people are happy.
When someone buys meth from a dealer, those two parties are also happy about the outcome of the agreement. I don't care.
You dont care about actual rule of law, you care about partisan rule of law. You dont like trump, so you are happy he is being attacked, but dont understand how it can backfire. You are in the "fucking around" stage, and if you guys get what you want we will go to the "finding out" part.
Nonsense. After Rod Blagojevich was caught trying to sell a Senate seat, I was glad to see him go to jail. And he is a Democrat.
I suppose you wonder why he was even arrested, after all when politicians are paid off both parties are happy with the outcome.
And for the last time, I am not afraid of Trump's threats.
Oh wow, you are happy a democrat went to prison... I am also not afraid of trumps threats, I am afraid what happens if trump loses and the maga people get mad because the election was actually blatently tampered with this time.
I am happy when crooked politicians go to prison, regardless of their party. And Trump is as crooked as any.
I am not afraid of maga people who are angry that the crook they worship was found guilty.
I am not afraid of maga people who are angry that the crook they worship was found guilty.
Uh, you should be, it could be the end of the country.
Do you think the jan 6th rioters should be getting years in prison?
Now, if you're trying to say the Democrats tampered with the election, there's absolutely zero evidence for that, as has been proven in court case after court case.
as has been proven in court case after court case.
No it wasnt, they cases didnt make it to court due to standing. You guys care about the law in politcal cases when it benefits your team only.
On each page it said that it was up to the lender to verify the information, you can claim its lying, but you would need to be very specific. I just mention direct harm because that is important to how much someone is penalized. And obviously the point of trumps penalty was not to stop him from breaking the law in the future... he is gonna die in the near future and is focused on politics.
Literally everything you have to say falls apart under basic scrutiny. You are just a partisan person that doesnt want to admit.
He specifically lied when he claimed an 11K square foot apartment had an area of 30K square feet.
You cannot escape responsibility for obeying the law by acknowledging that you might not be obeying the law. Do you seriously think that you can fill out a false tax return and get away with it if you write "This might not be my actual income, it's up to the IRS to verify". Judge Engoron basically laughed that argument out of court.
Trump will almost certainly apply for more loans before he dies. After this judgment, hopefully he will fill out those applications truthfully.
Thank you for finally getting specific. The apartment probably included unfinished garage space, but why do you think that would change the valuation much? Why didnt the loan company verify the information which is literally part of their due diligence?
Your whole case behind giving a fine of 400 million or so is based on a difference of about a million in appraised value change, which apparently the bank didnt even care about.
Are you suggesting that lying on a document is legal if others can figure out the truth? That's not how the law works, at all.
Try reporting an income of $0 on your taxes this year. An obvious lie, but the IRS probably already knows your income. They probably even already collected your taxes. Nevertheless, you will face consequences.
If you claim a thing that is defensible and say that its up to the other person to verify it, then its just part of how things work. The real question is why do you care what agreement two parties come to and are happy about the outcome?
The IRS is different than a bank, and income is different than appraised value.
Claiming an 11K sqft apartment as 30K sqft is not defensible.
And no, that's not "just how things work". You imagine that we live in some libertarian dystopia, but we don't. There are laws that prohibit lying in many circumstances, and you can't disclaim your responsibility to tell the truth.
If you sell bottles labeled "Aspirin" that contain no aspirin, you will face severe consequences. Even if nobody buys your bottles and nobody is harmed. Even if you write "User is responsible for verifying whether this bottle contains aspirin".
Because laws specifically outlaw lying on medication bottles, just as laws specifically outlaw lying on loan documents.
The real question is why do you care what agreement two parties come to and are happy about the outcome?
I care about rule of law, which means that people face the consequences for breaking laws. It makes no difference whether people are happy.
When someone buys meth from a dealer, those two parties are also happy about the outcome of the agreement. I don't care.
You dont care about actual rule of law, you care about partisan rule of law. You dont like trump, so you are happy he is being attacked, but dont understand how it can backfire. You are in the "fucking around" stage, and if you guys get what you want we will go to the "finding out" part.
Nonsense. After Rod Blagojevich was caught trying to sell a Senate seat, I was glad to see him go to jail. And he is a Democrat.
I suppose you wonder why he was even arrested, after all when politicians are paid off both parties are happy with the outcome.
And for the last time, I am not afraid of Trump's threats.
Oh wow, you are happy a democrat went to prison... I am also not afraid of trumps threats, I am afraid what happens if trump loses and the maga people get mad because the election was actually blatently tampered with this time.
I am happy when crooked politicians go to prison, regardless of their party. And Trump is as crooked as any.
I am not afraid of maga people who are angry that the crook they worship was found guilty.
Uh, you should be, it could be the end of the country.
Do you think the jan 6th rioters should be getting years in prison?
I'm not sure which election tampering you're talking about. It's clear Trump and his cronies interfered with the 2020 election, from establishing fake electors in multiple states to the interruption of election certification on January 6th.
Now, if you're trying to say the Democrats tampered with the election, there's absolutely zero evidence for that, as has been proven in court case after court case.
No it wasnt, they cases didnt make it to court due to standing. You guys care about the law in politcal cases when it benefits your team only.